CES Handheld Greatness, SteamOS Beta, & More | OTC EP 12

What's up!

It's 1999 all over again.

Uh, welcome to Off the Console.

The hottest podcast that's all about gaming and tech news and anything nerdy.

Uh, this week we're covering the biggest news.

Talking about CES stuff.

We're talking about the, uh, SteamOS coming to the Legion Go.

And maybe some of the other SteamOS related drama that happened this week.

And, uh, a ton of other stuff.

And this week We're joined by my friend and, uh, announcer for doodlings.

Rich, how's it going?

Rich?

That's right.

It's going pretty well, man.

Uh, just having, having some fun.

I haven't gotten back to making videos yet in the new year.

Um, so hopefully I'll, I'll do that this weekend, but I'm

just enjoying my time off.

You got to do that, man.

You can't get burnt out on this.

It can be quite a chore being a content creator.

You got to tell the audience what channel you run.

Fan the deck.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, he

does that too besides my video game.

Besides dude links, yeah.

I'm gonna learn a lot in this episode.

I'm gonna learn a lot.

I did not know that.

You didn't know that?

Oh man, yeah.

Uh, he did a great job too.

Him and uh, Myself, Emily, and a couple of other folks, and

Bill, yeah, Bill did it as well.

Bill was epic.

Bill's voice was

amazing.

Bill sounded like an actual sports announcer, and that's kind

of what I was trying to channel when I did it, and I didn't.

So, yeah, I was really happy when Bill did it.

Yours was good, but Bill, I'm not gonna lie, he took it to another level.

I think Bill killed

it.

Bill knocked it out of the park so much that I made him the default.

Is that true?

Did you really do that?

Yeah, I did.

That's awesome.

That's awesome.

Uh, but we're also joined by, uh, the common hosts of

the show, Hitech and James.

How's it going, guys?

Doing all right.

How about you?

Doing well, man.

We've had a heck of a week here.

Um, So yeah, what we usually start off the show with talking about

what games we've been playing this week, uh, Rich Why don't you start

what games you've been playing this

week?

I've been playing one game since it came out and nothing else.

I've been playing Marvel Rivals and like season one just dropped Yeah,

high tech knows we haven't yet, but he but he knows I've been I've been

messaging him And that game is amazing.

Like it's, it's insanely good.

Uh, and I, yeah, I've been trying the new characters, Mr.

Fantastic, Invisible Woman.

Uh, but like Jeff, Jeff, the lion shark was my main.

So, so I have a soft spot for the shark.

Yep.

War.

I see you.

I see you like war criminals.

Yeah, a hundred percent.

Yeah.

I want to take them off the map.

They're gone.

Everybody.

That's awesome.

Yeah, man.

I

heard that that works on the Steam Deck, is that right?

It does, for now.

Yes, yeah, that's the thing for now.

Like, people got banned, briefly, uh, because of the Steam Deck thing,

and, you know, NetEase apologized for it, uh, before it came out,

NetEase was like, yeah, we're gonna be Steam Deck compatible, so they

were, like, vocally supporting.

Um, I said elsewhere that, like, I am kind of, like, Waiting

for the other shoe to drop.

Like, I feel like, you know, they all turn their backs on, on steam deck.

Um, and I, I also think that like that topic is more nuanced than,

than even I can cover sometimes.

Um, but yeah, there's not a lot of, you know, anti cheat

supported games on steam deck.

Yeah, I think with time it's going to come, it's going to come with time.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, I agree.

Yeah.

Unless they have some sort of sophisticated anti cheat system that

prevents Linux users from cheating as well, which I mean, I kind of doubt.

But we also don't know much about their, uh

It's gonna be a money, it's gonna be a money thing eventually.

Yeah, I mean once, once Lenovo brings out their new, uh, SteamOS powered

Legion Go, and there's a couple other hardware vendors that do the same

thing, I think that's when we'll start to see, uh, other, uh, uh, anti

cheat games come to, you know, Linux.

Yeah, I, I saw your video, Gardner, on the, um, The Linus, uh, LTT, right?

Uh, talking about Linux gaming, the state of Linux gaming, and you, you

mentioned like a sea change and, and it feels like we're on the verge of that.

I mean, like, I know it's me, you know, you're the Linux desktop, but, um, it

feels like we're getting closer to at least, um, Linux being, uh, considered

a more serious gaming platform.

Absolutely, I mean there's already been kind of like a cultural shift among gamers

And it feels like like the whole game dev industry hasn't caught up with where

gamers are at Maybe not like it's not like

It's not mainstream to game on linux But like the steam deck is making it that way.

Like I was watching a video earlier from one of my favorite um music

creators on youtube And she was talking about in her time off.

She plays on the steam deck and i'm like that is So cool, like

just she's she's a harpist.

Uh, emily.

I can't remember her last name, but she's a harpist and she plays You Video games

on our steam deck and that's where like a lot of people are going to because

it just makes sense So, I don't know.

I'm very excited about when the gaming industry actually kind of wakes up

and realizes that The, the dead memes about like, you know, BBN and, and uh,

Hannah Montana Linux are, are over.

You know, like there's actual serious gaming you can do on, on Linux now.

Wait, are you

talking about Emily Hopkins?

Yeah.

The like, girl with like the two tone hair?

Yep.

Ooooooh, I know who you're talking about.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's cool that she plays on the Steam Deck.

I know, uh, I forget which rapper it was.

Was it, was it a Playboi Carti that had a Steam Deck or was it another guy?

I don't remember, but he added one pretty early on too.

Yeah.

Let's just say that most of the content creators or a lot of celebrities

probably have something along the lines of like a Steam Deck or something if

they like gaming, because, uh, it's just easy to, they're on the go a lot.

It's easy.

Like I I've been shocked at how many people I've watched.

So where like, just comes out, they have a Steam Deck or something else.

I'm like.

It's, it's, it's mainstream, it's getting mainstream.

And with Fremont and like with a desktop drop, use, like, from a user

experience kind of thing, doing like designs and all that, like, or, um,

Once you make it easy, it's a done deal.

And that's the problem with Linux.

It's never, it's been fun for the advanced user, but it's

not as easy for the, the rest.

Yeah.

One of the reasons I was so bullish on like steam machines way back in the

day was because They were ready made devices that were, that came with Linux

on them, and you didn't have to do anything else, but the pricing was wrong,

and the, and there was no support for Windows software at all, and so we're

at a point now where, you know, Valve is selling a, like, a hot commodity.

The Steam Deck is, like, such an amazing, uh, and, and in demand thing

that, you know, it doesn't matter who you are or what your skill level is,

if you have You can get an amazing PC gaming console like experience.

And that's why I I'm such like, so, uh, excited about it, you know?

So one thing we don't have on our roster, I don't think is that Microsoft at least

what I've read has announced that they're going to be coming out with a handheld

version of windows or like making it.

So it's more handheld friendly and it definitely sounds like they're worried.

Uh, I think they're getting more worried because it should be.

They put too much into the AI play and not realize that they

could, they need to diversify and like me, I'm done with Windows.

I have not, I try to touch Windows as the least amount as I can.

It's either Mac or it's Linux right now.

Like I'll, I'll still do Windows, but like I'm, my pathway is

to get away from it again now.

So, never thought I'd be here.

I definitely think that my, my concern about Microsoft is that assuming you even,

you know, want them to be successful, which I think some people do, right?

Like in terms of competition, uh, even I will say like, yeah, I, I, I want

them to have some user base, right?

Like I want them to keep making games.

They make good games.

Um, and so my concern is.

They're late, like in terms of handheld, in terms of like, uh,

being handheld friendly or having handheld hardware, like either one

of those two considerations there.

It feels like they're zoom levels late, right?

Like it feels like that all over again.

And I don't know how they crawl out of that hole at this point.

I'm a little worried about that.

Well, I think Windows 11 has also proven that they really don't have what it takes

anymore to maintain an operating system.

Like, they're not testing stuff.

They're rolling out updates that are, that completely break people's PCs.

They're, they're, uh, and, and they don't really understand, like, what

gamers need to, in order to play games.

As far as, you know.

I've seen anyway, um, just I just feel like microsoft the only thing

they have is like the Institution of windows and that's not enough because

that is crumbling beneath their feet.

I think so Uh, and and they don't even have really xbox anymore.

And I know I got heat for saying for like Hating Microsoft which I don't I

actually really like xbox as a brand.

I really have fond memories about xbox and xbox 360 uh, but like for the last two

console generations Xbox has has been in last place and there's a reason for that

and they don't it's because they don't really understand what gamers want and

so I am pretty confident that valve does understand what gamers want and steamos

is going to be able to cater to them especially when it's really easy to You

Get a seamless device because you don't even have to know how to install it and

you can just go to the store Pretty soon.

You'll be able to go to the store and buy one.

So I don't know.

That's where my head's at.

Um,

I Think it's interesting what Microsoft is doing because um it they do recognize that

You know things are going to change and things that need to change and you know

part that's part of why they're coming with that Handheld, uh, I think I think

it's not just Windows going handheld, but it's also them talking about a quote

unquote Handheld I know the Fox has been talking about that for a while now if

you recall he's put post a lot about it About them potentially making one.

I mean And I think the rumors are becoming more and more true, but the big

question now is is it too late for them?

I Think so

Let's just say it all depends it really all depends if

they release it in two years.

Yes That's gonna probably be too late, but they might also try to do a huge

marketing, uh, thing, like, cause I, uh, They're either gonna release it

within the next year, or they're gonna release it maybe if they feel like Steam

Deck is, uh, too much of a competition.

Uh, like, Steam Deck 2.

They'll line it up with Steam Deck

2, maybe.

Mm.

Yeah.

See, I think the most, like, the most rational threat that we face

from Microsoft is them spending 80 billion dollars to buy Valve.

I don't know.

That's the biggest like if if microsoft really senses that there's

something there's competition and that's going to challenge Their

dominant position with windows.

They're going to try to buy valve That's the biggest issue that we

face and I don't I I mean, I don't know if valve will actually sell

I don't they're not public so

they don't have they don't have the risk of being pressured by

Stakeholders if they were public that would be much worse They're private.

They don't have to, they don't have to be pressured by stakeholders.

So,

um, yeah, that happened with the company.

Uh, That we talked about a couple of times in the podcast, you know, Kadokawa.

Yeah, they were pressured by Kakao Media, and also Tencent,

who are both foreign entities.

And, uh, they ended up going with Sony.

I think the other thing to keep in mind with Microsoft, too, is that, like,

uh, They probably wouldn't do that because they can't afford it, right?

Like, obviously they can afford whatever they want, but in terms of where they're

spending money, They, they are pulling back on spending money in gaming, right?

Like they are just that that's, it's sort of the, like, I think the reason,

um, that I consider them to be in this hole that they have to crawl out

of is because they're not willing to put any money into anything, whether

it's hardware, uh, gaming, right?

Like they bought Activision and that was kind of the last nail

in the straw, nail in the coffin in terms of like us spending,

Microsoft spending a lot of money.

Big expenditures on gaming there.

Otherwise now they're kind of on this, like, uh, uh, Austerity, right?

Like they're not, they're trying not to spend the money there.

So it seems like they're just not investing.

They overspent and their roadmaps all over the place.

I, and them getting rid of, like, they they've been planning it for a

while to get, to go away from doing Xbox systems per se, and to the

everything's an Xbox kind of campaign.

So it'll be interesting to see how that goes.

I.

Think that will be the future kind of for Xbox if they don't

want to be like innovative.

They could also Turn towards handheld and more go more that way and like

the switch route that could also be very beneficial there's a lot of

routes they could go and Microsoft as long as they have good leadership and

good vision, they'll do really well.

I just don't think they do I

mean realistically, I mean realistically, Microsoft has no competition because

everything's an Xbox already, you know?

Your Steam Deck's an Xbox, your, uh, Playstation 5 is an Xbox.

Hell, maybe even your Switch too.

Yeah, we'll get to that.

Um, we haven't touched on what you guys have been playing though.

James, what have you been playing?

Uh, I've been playing a little, uh, a game that's not released yet.

I'm not going to go too much into it because I don't want to ruin

it for everyone, but chess mess.

Um, I've been playing it.

I, okay, I'll be honest.

I have only played it for about 30 minutes, uh, so I

played a couple of rounds.

It's fun.

It's really fun.

Um.

For those who don't know, Chessmess is the game that I'm working on.

It's coming out, hopefully in a couple of months here.

I'm pretty excited about it.

That's awesome.

I didn't know you were working on another one.

That's cool.

Well, it sounds like you don't want to spoil it, but I was going

to ask, what kind of game is it?

Oh, James, you can explain it if you

want.

Yeah, so it's a, what is it, like a roguelike chess based game.

So it takes a completely different turn on what chess is.

I don't I actually get kind of bored with the, cause I played a lot of chess, I'm

not great at chess, but I played a lot of chess checkers and stuff like that.

So I like it when stuff that I've liked in the past has a big twist to it.

And so that's what's making this fun for me is that it's like chess,

a lot of parts of like chess, but then has a lot of twists to it.

And it's fun.

Uh, so, the way it works is, there's a board, a standard sized chess board that's

filled with random chess pieces, black and white, and you control both the black

and the white pieces, and, um, there's a, there's like a, a par score, essentially,

that every time you capture a piece with another piece, it from that par score.

Once you hit zero, a gray king appears on the board and you

have to capture the gray king.

With the pieces that you have left.

So, uh, it's, it's, it's kind of a strategy, kind of a puzzle, kind of

a roguelike because in between levels you get cards that add different

power ups and mix up the gameplay.

And, uh, It's pretty exciting.

I sent it to Hitech, too.

He DM'd me some stuff, uh, like some issues that were he found with it, but

All right, so Alongside Chess Mess, I've also been trying to

play I've been trying to 100

percent Bellatro.

Like Like Completionist that includes beating the game with every deck

on Goldstake, and also every Joker.

On Goldstake 2, which is kind of, like, which is going to be insane

to do because, you know, RNG, right?

You also can't use seeded runs to finish that either, so you, you kind of just have

to encounter some of the jokers anyways.

And yeah, with Chess Mess, I, uh, I sent Gardner a couple of clips of me, uh,

two turning, uh, two turning a board.

Dude, yeah, I've never seen anything like that in the game.

He he scored what was it like 16 000 points in one move I was like,

how the hell did you do that?

I've never seen that

Uh, yeah

Epic Gamer.

You ever consider sending a key to like, Magnus Carlsen?

Like, the top, uh, chess player?

Dude, I've

thought about that.

I've thought about Gotham Chess, and I'm a huge chess fan.

I love chess.

And, I was playing it one day, after I had been playing, um, Bejeweled.

I was playing Bejeweled on my Steam Deck.

And, I was like, I was like, what if, instead of Jewels, I played, uh It was

like chess pieces and you could only move them like chess pieces And then I was and

then I tried that I implemented it and it wasn't actually that fun And so I was

like, oh, but i've already got all this stuff figured out So i'm gonna change

the rules and I ended up with chess mess.

So Uh, yeah, I the idea of getting this out there and then having you

know, some of my favorite like chess players in the world Trying it out.

That would be that would be dope.

That would be so cool um Yeah, what have I been playing this week?

I've been playing I just got synth riders for uh, it's a vr game

It's a little bit like beat saber.

Um I want to find some custom songs for it because most of the stuff

that's built in is like really synth pop and that's not my style.

But it's, it's, it's similar to Beat Saber and you know, you have a ball for

each hand and you have to hit the same color ball with, with whatever hand.

But then there's also some cool stuff where if it's yellow,

then you have to put your hands together and hit, hit it like that.

And you like ride rails and stuff with your hands.

It's kind of cool.

Um, I feel like it would be more fun if it was, like, if it had music I liked.

Uh, but then I also played Walkabout mini mini golf, which is, like, a VR mini golf

game, and it's actually quite cool, too.

I I I spent probably an hour this morning playing that.

Damn, I can't wait for Valve to release a deck so I can try out

more VR games, because my brother has a, uh, Quest 2, actually.

I tried it out, like, and it's pretty cool, but There's pro there

aren't a lot of games I, like, really like on there besides Superhot VR.

The the biggest problem with VR is the games like there aren't that

many games and that's like That's the thing that really bugs me with VR

Yeah, you gotta hook that thing up to a computer high

tech and play Half Life Alex.

Yeah,

you gotta do it I

mean I would but it's also not mine But you borrow it or you

know, maybe steal it overnight Yeah

Yeah, Deckard, the nice thing about Deckard too, right?

Like is, it seems like Valve is aiming for it to be more than just VR, right?

Like you're just play whatever you want and you're like big family, your big

living room, your virtual living room.

Right.

And so a lot of that like goes towards the, that chicken and egg

problem that they are, that VR is facing and that Linux face before VR.

So like, yeah, it's, it's a good way to sort of short circuit that,

that chicken and egg problem.

Yep, I'm, I'm, I'm super stoked, uh, for.

For Deckard for sure.

Um, alright, before we move on to the actual topics, we've spent, I don't

know how long, talking about whatever, but, uh, I want to ask everybody, if

you're watching this show and you're enjoying these conversations, make

sure you subscribe to YouTube, uh, subscribe to us on YouTube, I should say.

Uh, we're also available, uh, as an RSS feed for the audio podcast, uh, podcast.

subscribe2.

me.

And then there's also, uh, you can actually engage with.

The show on the Fediverse, uh, at off the console show.

At podcast dot subscribe to dot me.

So you can send comments over there.

You can like, and share our, our audio feed over there.

Uh, it's pretty neat.

Uh, I'm a big Fediverse enthusiast, so I was insistent on using the

software we're using for this.

So first topic, let's talk about CES.

Cause it ended yesterday as of recording and high tech, we have a bunch of like

notes for, uh, CES this, this year, tell it, walk us through some of this

stuff here that you want to talk about.

Yeah.

So we have so many announcements here that, uh, I had to make

a separate document for them.

I don't, I don't think which, uh, I don't think you sent most of

these documents, the document, but, uh, I can tell you what they are.

So we have AMD's, uh, CES keynote.

So, uh, we have the AMD, uh, CES notes.

You've got their Ryzen 9950 X3D, their Ryzen 9900 X3D.

They've got the Z2 series, which includes the Z2 Extreme.

The Z two regular and the Z two go, which is Lenovo exclusive for now.

And their mobile processor, um, pro processing units, their 9,000 HX series.

And also sometimes they're like, I don't know man, I don't like AMDs naming scheme.

The, like, rise in AI 9 3 90 hx.

Like I, I can barely decipher it.

How's the, nor how's the average person supposed to do it?

They don't.

They

watch our channels and figure it out that way.

Alright, well I guess I'm gonna have to memorize them by heart until they like,

change the naming scheme like five years down the line or some bullshit like that.

Yeah.

Let's see, Intel also has Panther Lake featuring Xe3 celestial graphics.

I don't know very much about that.

It doesn't mean anything.

It doesn't mean anything.

Celestial?

What a joke.

It's a

joke.

But in terms of, uh, graphics, I think the most important and

significant announcement here are the AMD announcements.

I mean the N NVIDIA announcements, because they just unveiled the RTX 5000 series.

So the RTX 5090 is 1, 999.

And it's got a bunch of specs that don't really matter until we get them

in our hands, but it's going to be the most expensive, and it's probably

going to be a lot faster than the 4090.

And we also have a 5080 as well.

Um, the 5080 is 9.

99 and the 5070 Ti is 7.

49 and the RTX 5070 is 549.

There aren't any outlandish claims with these except for the 5070, which

Nvidia claims will have 4090 level performance with AI and all that shit.

So what are you guys thoughts on that?

Do we believe it?

I cannot believe it.

I believe it with DLSS 4.

I believe it, but you're not going to have the same experience.

So, I don't remember what they said during the whole press conference thing,

but if they ever claim that it's like the same experience, that's a lie.

What's not a lie is that you'll have some, like you could probably

have similar frame rate to it.

But it's not the same.

It's a, it's AI assisted or like, um, you know, uh, frame generated assistant.

Like, we need to start having, like, better terms in the

industry for this type of stuff.

Cause it's, I think important cause a lot of people like it,

and a lot of people don't like it.

And to distinguish this, cause it's gonna become more and

more of a thing with FSR and

DLSS.

Should it be, should the term be, uh, gameplay, gameplay slop?

No, because it can improve over time.

And like, for me, I don't mind playing with the LSS on the problem

is what levels of quality do I enable?

What other things do I enable?

Like for me, all this tells me like the pricing scheme and everything.

Why would I get a 50, 90, if I, if they're claiming to have such high frame

rates for these games that maxed out, why, why wouldn't I go for the 50, 80?

There's no games that really spent it.

It's the 50, 70, they claimed had 40, 90 performance.

I know, but like the 5090 though, like if you go look at the benchmarks

though, like they're really high.

And so with that frame rate, I don't care about that high of frame rate.

I want the sweet spots, like around a hundred for me.

Anything more is I don't do competitive stuff enough to where it matters.

So why wouldn't I just buy a, like a 50, 70 TI?

So that's my takeaway is like, I'm going to be spending less because of this.

Yeah.

I think with the, like DLSS, like the comparisons between intergenerational

or cross generational cards and like using DLSS, I mean, like, obviously

it works to their benefit in terms of marketing, but like, I, I don't get it.

Right.

Like, what does that mean?

Does that mean, uh, 5070 with DLSS on compares to 4090 with DLSS off?

Or is it like balanced versus quality?

Or like, what is the, what does that, what do they actually mean?

And I'm sure that's not what they, I'm sure how we quoted them, so to

speak, is not what they actually said.

Um, but I know that they made the comparison, which is just like,

I don't know what that means.

So their new technology with a DLSS 4 is multi frame a generation.

So.

It generates three frames per traditionally rendered frame.

So here are some examples they gave us.

So with DLSS off, they gave us 27 frames per second.

With DLSS 2, it jumps up to 71, which I believe DLSS 2 is just upscaling, correct?

And then DLSS 3.

5 is where we had the first iteration of frame generation, which I believe

is one frame per generate, one generate frame per regular frame.

It's 142 FPS, supposedly.

And now with multi frame generation, it's 243 frames per second.

And part of me questions, like, the validity of this, because, like,

I've seen, like, frame generation, and I'm gonna tell you right

now, it doesn't look very good.

Like.

Have you guys seen interpolated content?

Like content that wasn't made for like a specific resolution, but people like

to upscale it to 60 FPS or whatever.

Like I've seen that and it looks really weird.

And I've seen a lot of clips, both real life and like animation.

It looks kind of terrible.

And it's going to be a more sophisticated version of that.

But part of me wonders if maybe this isn't the way to go.

I mean, you're not even really generating frames.

You're not even generating real frames.

You're generating like.

What if in between frames,

right?

So it's really easy to get cynical with this type of stuff.

I want to know what direction do you think they should go?

Cause our die shrinkage has already gotten almost to the point of we can't

really go much more performance gains.

I want to know what we could do to get performance gains from here on out without

just increasing core count and memory.

And maybe that's the answer, or maybe that's what they need to

do, but where do we go from here?

There's going to be some new technologies and they're going

to be rough in the beginning.

And I do, like for me, I like, I don't mind DLSS, I think, and even NVIDIA

claimed that 80 percent of the people that play on their cards have DLSS enabled.

So that claim alone, and this is coming from Linus Tech, I watched

their podcast before this or at least part of it, that that claim alone

indicates that like for the average person, they don't care so much.

For me, I'm a mixed bag on this.

It really depends on the game.

But It just depends.

I think the thing that's going to make the biggest difference is, like, How

it feels when you're playing, right?

Like, I don't think I've ever played a game with frame generation.

Is it even available yet?

I don't know.

Black

Myth Wukong has it.

Okay, I haven't played that, so I don't know.

But, if it doesn't feel good, If it doesn't feel like you're playing

a game with a frame rate That.

You know, with a higher frame rate, right?

If it, if it feels like this weird interpolated kind of morphy bullshit,

then it's not going to be worth it.

You know what I'm saying?

Um, so it has to feel right.

And what I have found is that a lot of people just don't have an eye for the, the

minor details in an image, and they don't have a, they, people have a better feel

for how a game feels than how it looks.

And so that's going to be what is really important here.

Um, Personally, I'll try it, right?

I am skeptical of it.

I just don't see how, like, deep learning can generate frames unless

it's also pulling the controller at a higher frame rate or something.

I just don't see how it is going to be able to Make it feel better to play.

I just, I don't know.

So, partly, from my understanding of how the technology works is that when

you're playing, let's say a first person shooter, Um, and you're gonna

turn, well a lot of the pixels on there are already gonna be the same.

Like, when you turn just a little bit, especially with how fast it's rendering,

It's not gonna change a whole lot.

So they can already, um, like, Just like they can already detect what, what

99 percent of the pixels are probably gonna look like each time it renders.

That's how it works.

And I think it will get better, but at the same time, I don't like, once you

get past a certain amount, your eyes can't tell it's only really, I, it's

just kind of like saying 243 is just kind of a marketing kind of thing.

It's, it's a brand.

Yeah.

Right.

Thanks.

Gardner, to your point, uh, it doesn't address input latency whatsoever.

Right.

So, so that, that does still exist.

So, you know, a 27.

FPS game that somehow gets to 243 FPS.

Like it'll still feel like a 30 FPS game ish.

Um, but, but yeah, it may be to James's point, right?

Like a one, 142 FPS game that goes up to 243, right?

Like you, you know, You don't need it to be more responsive than 142 FPS.

Although like we said earlier in competitive games, that may help, but

generally speaking, it's not important.

Um, so maybe that's something where, yeah, maybe that helps.

I don't know.

Um, Yeah, I think for me, um, I mean, like I, I still have like a four year old

graphics card in my, in my desktop, right?

I am thinking about upgrading right now, but it, it's just, uh, it's

not that big of a deal for me.

I mostly game on the steam deck or GLX.

So yeah, I'm, I'm fine with lower graphics.

Yeah, so one more thing I should mention is that I don't

have an issue with upscaling.

That's not my concern.

I think upscaling is fine.

I wish games didn't require it, but I mean, it is what it is nowadays.

It's just the, yeah, like, traditionally speaking, the big issue with frame

generation is that In order to make the, like, in order for it to be super useful,

you kind of already need to generate frame, like a good frame rate already.

Like it's recommended that you have 60 frames per second before

you use like frame generation.

So I'm curious as how NVIDIA addressed this, because I've seen frame generation

like below, like at 30 FPS and it's, it doesn't look pretty, it looks a lot

better when you have like 60 FPS as the minimum, but like a lot of modern

triple A games don't run at 60 FPS.

Unless you have really good hardware, or you're running at low resolutions.

Like, I think Dragon's Dogma 2, like, last year, was pretty infamous

for this, if you guys recall.

The, like, framework with chugging towns.

Yeah.

I mean, James, earlier you said something about, like, dies are shrinking, right?

And we're coming up on the end of Moore's Law.

What is the game industry going to do?

The fact is, there's a lot that they can do.

There's a lot of performance that's still on the table.

They're not optimizing their games for hardware.

They're, you know, they're making sure that it works, and then

they're updating the drivers to optimize it that way, right?

They're, they're offloading a lot of performance stuff on hardware vendors.

And at this point, I think what game developers can do is optimize

for lowest common denominator hardware, which is going to be

the Steam Deck, right, for PCs.

And then from there, you'll have much better performance on higher end systems.

So, I just, I'm really skeptical about all this stuff because I don't think it's

that necessary, like, especially if, you know, it's recommended you have 60 FPS

before you even turn on frame generation.

I just don't see how adding extra stuff that's not actually reacting to your

gameplay, like your inputs, between frames, is gonna make a difference at all.

I, I don't know.

I, I wanna try it.

I'm, I'm not, like, completely poo pooing this technology.

I just, it, I did, I just don't see how it makes sense.

Yeah, I don't that it's 243, right?

Like, yeah, but what this all, all this tells me is that if they're going to claim

40, 90 experience and I can put a game in there that is a very intensive game.

And if I don't get similar to the, uh, like the, with the 50, 70 similar

to the 40, 90, then false advertising and I'm going to be pissed off.

That's all.

Make that video.

Yeah, like I'd make a video.

Well, I'd have to get it and they can't they can't watch this but But the 57

like all this really tells me Like ipl, I kind of wanna build a new computer

this year and I have a 30 90 right now.

I might just go with the 50 70 TI or something like that.

I don't need to buy the $2,000, uh, series one.

I'm fine with DLSS, uh, being turned on for my stuff and I might stop playing

at the highest settings 'cause even the highest settings don't really matter these

days as much like Ultra and all that.

I might just start playing it high and uh, just.

Going with that, the biggest thing that I don't like is that

it has 16 gigabytes of RAM.

So I'd be dropping my RAM, my VRAM that is, from what my 3090 is.

Um, I'm not a fan of that, but beyond that, I, it's just kind

of not selling me on the 5090.

That's a, that's a good point.

The, even the 5080 has 16 gigs, right?

So like, yeah, that might've been a place for at least the 5080 to go to 32.

So frame generation, like this type of stuff, I saw a bunch of stuff on this.

The frame generation in these DLSS technology helps with the RAM usage.

Yes.

So it does help.

It does.

They must be doing a bunch of like, it must be doing more

than what they're claiming.

Um, with, uh, with optimizing textures and stuff like that.

So, well, well, Apple said they're eight gigabytes of RAM is equivalent to like

16 gigabytes on a normal Windows PC.

Remember that claim?

They know how to optimize their RAM usage really well.

Yeah, I know.

I also don't like what they do with their RAM either, but like,

they do optimize much better.

I'll say that.

But they run on Unix.

They have better garbage collection.

They have a whole different reason why they can get away

with lower amounts of RAM.

They also have a very fixed amount of hardware that they have to

support with their OS, versus Windows, which does everything.

Yep.

Very optimized.

They can optimize very easily, and that goes to the Gardener's point of

like, you need to start optimizing more for the lowest, like, for the lowest

one, and that's what Apple does, and then everything else works great up.

Steam Deck needs to become the new standard.

I think game developers really need to understand that.

Uh, especially Unreal.

Epic doesn't want to deal with Valve's stuff, but they're going to have to

understand that Steam Deck is probably going to be the new standard low spec.

It's a good spec to hit, and I think most games would do great if they

hit that.

Man, yeah, so speaking of which, let's see, so Dell, we'll see what

else they had, we had to see, yes.

Dell, they killed off their entire line of products except for Alienware.

They instead now have Del, DelPro, and DelProMax, each with their

own base, plus, and premium.

That's not going to be confusing.

And then they

simplified it.

We can move, like, let's talk a little bit.

Just we, they simplified it and yet made it complicated.

So they killed off like names and stuff like that.

And then they went DelBasePlusPro, uh, premium.

And then they did DelProProMax, the kind of like what Apple does.

Del, . They're just,

I don't know, getting mad.

Is it really?

Is it, is it Dell Depro and then Depro Max, and then each of those

have, and then each of those have like a base, and then they have

plus, so it's de and then Premium

Depro Max Premium.

That's such,

I guess,

oh my God.

Is it Alienware Pro Max Premium 2 or what?

Uh, I

think they're just keeping the Alienware stuff the way it is right now.

Speaking of which, I'm surprised Dell hasn't jumped in with their

stupid Alienware UFO thing.

I remember hearing about that many, many years ago at a CES.

Woah, is not stupid.

Alright, okay.

I'm not saying it's stupid.

I'm saying Dell is stupid.

Sorry, I should've rephrased that.

No, that thing is awesome and they should've released it.

They should have released it.

We still better yet, I mean, yeah, they can like, I think it's, I

mean the design looks fairly fine.

Like from what I can remember, I, I mean, I've never touched it before

and I'll, but like I remember the device looked like a decent handheld.

This is, it looks like a r it

was a Legion go.

It looks like a legion go.

Yeah.

It has detachable.

Controllers that has a back it and I think the screen is a little bigger.

I think it's like an 8 inch screen.

Maybe 10 Yeah, it was

using like really old like Intel hardware back in the day.

So obviously so they The uh, the hardware side, I think

I'm looking at a Image of it and it's got like that weird trapezoidal

bezel and it's like what is that?

It's kind of weird But they wouldn't have to change it that much to then ship it.

Just

add a, just add a thumb pad and you're good to go.

And yeah.

So speaking of which we also had the Acer nitro blaze devices and like they exist,

I guess, I don't really think there's anything really noteworthy about these.

I mean, the blaze 11 has detachable controllers, but that's about it.

Oh, and also stuff that wasn't on the list.

I should probably should have added this, but they also had another Zotac zone.

Like, didn't they just release one again a few months ago and now

they have a better version of one.

Isn't that like,

so I'm a little bit, I don't know if it's out of the loop because I

know they, they, you know, the Acer nitro blaze and the Zotac zone both

came out, but here's the thing.

Where do you buy them?

Like, I think you can buy them in EU, right?

But like, Zotac Zone, can you buy that in the US?

Uh, I don't know, maybe.

ETA Prime got one, so either they sent it to him, or like, I

mean, they definitely sent it to him, but like, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm sure you can buy one in the U.

S.

somewhere.

I just wouldn't.

Oh, maybe.

Yeah, probably on Amazon or something.

I

don't see a link on their website.

I'm

saying!

It's pretty hard to buy one, I'm pretty sure.

Like,

yeah.

Huh.

Maybe

they just didn't sell it.

I don't remember the Zotac Zone having trackpads on it.

Interesting.

Yeah, it has dual trackpads, but none of the reviewers

ever talk about the trackpads.

Like Apparently they don't work with Steam Input, but I wouldn't know since

none of the reviewers mentioned it.

Honestly, it

looks good for the most part.

It just should be a SteamOS device.

Yeah, I, I don't see anywhere to buy it on their website.

I'm on their store and it's not there.

So,

well, there, they did unveil a new version of ZPS, so that might be why.

And, um, You know, high tech, you mentioned reviewers, but like,

how many reviewers are there?

Like actual, like not early reviews, not previews, but like

reviewers, I think it's pretty much.

Is it

like, I think ETA prime labeled his as a review.

Yes.

I think there's a bunch of different publications as well, but that's about it.

Yeah.

There aren't too many reviewers.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But the big stuff at CES was Lenovo.

And I think Gardner wants to talk about Lenovo.

Oh, I'm, I'm all about this.

This is pretty cool.

Uh, the, it comes in a bunch of different flavors, but the one I'm

most interested in is the Lenovo Legion Go S hyphen powered by SteamOS.

This thing.

Is pretty neat.

Now, I've seen a couple comments, because I did a video about this a few

days ago, and uh, a couple comments are saying, Oh, it's, it's a Z1

powered device and blah, blah, blah.

It's, it's antiquated.

Which, it just boggles my mind.

But the fact is, you can, I believe you can get it in a Z2, uh, thing.

Am I wrong about that?

You can get the The

Z2 Go?

Yeah.

I believe the Z2

Go is actually weaker than the Z1 Extreme.

Oh, is it really?

See, I'm not a hardware guy.

I mean Technically.

But, I wanna, I'm wondering if the Z2 Go is better, um, battery,

like better on the battery.

It uses the older RDNA 2, which I think is what, um, Steam Deck uses.

So, it, I wouldn't be shocked if that's the one that's default for Steam OS.

Because it resembles the Steam, it, it's like I said, better on the battery.

It, it, uh, valve is gonna be targeting EMD first, and so whatever's gonna

get closest to what they already have working is probably gonna be what's

going to, to be released first.

Yeah.

So, to be honest, I was questioning at first why they would even make a

Z two go that's weaker than like the Z one extreme, but then I, it hit me.

What if this was just the steam deck, like SOC, like straight up and they

just rebranded it to the Z two Go.

Mm.

12 RDNA, so it has 12, uh, compute units, right?

And so that's, that's a lot.

It's the same as the Xeon Extreme.

It's, I don't, it's going to be quite a bit more powerful than the Steam

Deck, but I don't know about how much more powerful, because I don't

think

this Steam Deck has that much compute units, so.

The

Steam Deck has 8 compute units, I think.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, Oh, go ahead.

Yeah, so there were some preliminary benchmarks from Dave2D.

Uh, and he did some, he did some testing.

There are improved frame rates, for sure.

But, I mean, these aren't like, official benchmarks.

This is just him messing around and recording some numbers.

It's

like pre release, pre release hardware that he has too, right?

Yes.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, I mean, the thing is, like, this has, uh, 32 gigabytes of RAM.

Um, yeah.

And up to yeah, up to 32.

Yeah.

So they'll probably have like one or like two different models like you

can get the 16 gig or the 32 gig.

And, uh, but I believe that the, the SteamOS model starts at 16 gigs

and then 512 gigabytes of storage.

And then, uh, and the, uh, Windows version is going to have a

release this month at some point.

And then it's going to have like a.

Lower end release alongside the SteamOS version in May.

Um.

Yes.

Right.

And so, I'm really excited about it because having more SteamOS

powered hardware on the market is going to make a huge difference.

And with the price point starting at like, what is it, 499?

So 500?

Yeah.

I mean, that's going to be a big deal.

It's going to be like price competitive with the Steam Deck.

Um.

And, and it'll also have like upgraded hardware, and you'll be

able to get a 32 gigabyte model with uh, 1 terabyte of storage.

And that's, I'm imagining 1 terabyte of storage, um, for a little bit more.

And I think that that's gonna be a big deal.

Like, people will be able to like, actually play their games in a way

that is, Ergonomic, you know, in terms of, uh, How you, like, your experience

with the software, um, And, and people, like, like I was saying earlier, I

think people are, like, bullish on the Steam Deck, Or on, on SteamOS now, Where

before it was kind of like this meme of, like, oh, Linux for gaming, you know?

So, I don't know, I'd love, what are your guys thoughts on this?

Um, Go ahead,

James.

Go to sleep.

Rich, Rich.

Go first.

go.

Um, so I am excited for more, just like you Gardner, more steamOS devices.

I'm not that excited for this device.

Like, I think it's cool that it exists.

Um, I don't know.

I mean, like, until I get it in my hands, right?

Like, I don't yet know, like, who I would necessarily recommend it to.

Is it like, You know, slightly more powerful, slightly more,

you know, cost slightly more than the entry level steam deck.

So maybe if, if you are, if you want a steam deck, but you just want a little

more power, um, So, like, for me, uh, the RGLI X, uh, the RGLI didn't really

fit anything that I was looking for at the time, right, but the RGLI X did,

which is, it felt like, uh, with Bazight, like I got an upgrade on the Steam Deck,

because I got the more power, but I kept the good battery life, right, because

it just has a large battery, so I was able to still play, Five hours of low

end games, but then now I can play high end games and play, you know, two hours.

Um, whereas the go S sit somewhere in the middle there, right.

And closer to the steam deck.

Uh, and so, uh, you know, it, it just, there's a little bit of like,

It doesn't feel like the right time.

Um, but I may change my mind once I actually get my hands on it.

It does look really comfortable, for example.

And so maybe that's something that like, once I play around with it, it'll, I, the

reason for being will come to my mind.

You know what I mean?

Mm-hmm

. Yeah.

I'm just really excited about the, uh, the LEDs around the, or on the thumb sticks.

. It's gonna make it run faster.

Rv, you know how it is, it's like,

it's like those Nike, uh, like light up shoes that kids

used to wear in the nineties.

Yeah.

You know?

Oh my

God.

Oh, hold up.

I lot, I like the lights kind of

I just wanna make sure.

Sure.

I do like that.

I want, I wanna be able to turn 'em off though, too.

. Yes.

That'll be interesting to see how they configure that in Steam os.

Mm-hmm . Um.

So for me, I see this device as Steam Deck 1.

5.

It's not a Steam Deck 2 kind of device.

It has almost everything I want the Steam Deck 2 to have.

The performance is what's going to be the seller for me.

If it feels like it's at least 30 percent faster than the Steam

Deck, I will most likely buy this.

Cause it has, um, I know a few games I've played that the RAM has been the

limited, the limiter 32 gigabytes of RAM has eight inches, which is what I want.

It's my favorite size, uh, of screen.

It's honestly pretty.

Okay, okay.

I love eight inches.

Um, no.

So, uh, then, then, uh, the battery, yeah, battery could be a little higher,

uh, I think, but then it's got the two USB fours, which then I can play around

with, um, eGPUs with SteamOS and stuff.

That'd be really fun to try out, uh, just to play, just to play around with,

just to see what we can get going.

Uh, it allows for me to play with SteamOS more, which I've already kind of exhausted

a lot of stuff on Steam back then.

So that's fair.

That's for, for me, that's kind of where that plays.

I, it'll be interesting to see what the configuration I

want will be priced, but yeah.

Mm-hmm

. Yeah, I, I, I'm, I'm keen on getting more details.

I'm keen on seeing more like actual reviews and comparisons with the

Dex hardware, but I, I do think that this is good overall, especially

because this is the first non-valve.

SteamOS device and that and and that means that we're getting SteamOS for sure as

a beta from Valve pretty soon They said

before the Legion go s releases.

Yeah, so probably sometime between now April and April or whatever I

think the strong speculations April.

So I do want to say they did also show off a Legion go to prototype

And that looks super promising.

Like, my, like, my thoughts are that I wish we had a

SteamOS version of that device.

What's it gonna take?

If they release the beta.

Exactly.

That's the thing, if I think I can get the beta onto the Go 2,

I probably would just do that.

Yeah, that's probably what I'm

gonna do.

That's where I'm at.

That's exactly where I'm at.

Yeah.

My viewers also echoed my sentiments as well.

They were like, Forget the Legion Go S, when are they going

to release the Legion Go 2?

Like, I mean, and unfortunately we don't have a date besides this year.

It could be like, November, kind of like when the original steam

Alright, so to clarify, the Legion Go S I mean, the Legion Go 2 is

supposed to come with a Z2 Extreme.

And it's also supposed to have an OLED VRR display.

And it maintains all the unique features of the Legion Go, like, you know,

detachable controllers, and also the kickstand, and also the mouse mode, too.

And it looks

better.

Now, the only crappy thing about it is, if you stick with the

Windows, is the software still there, or is it as good as Armory?

Because, uh, that was one of my biggest kickers from my review for the Legion

Go, was that software was not great.

They did revamp the software a few times and they also, they also showed off a

new version of that software at CES.

That's something we'll probably have to ask Russ about though.

Yeah, it certainly improved.

I don't know where it stands now in comparison to Armory Crate.

I don't, I don't know if they caught up all the way.

Um, but, but it is much better now than it was at launch.

At launch it was horrendous.

But you know, so was SteamOS.

Yeah, SteamOS

was,

yeah, that's something that people forget.

SteamOS was, I would not put that into comparison because it did have a lot

of hiccups, but I hit button, like I'd hit the menu button to try to bring

it up and Legion would not show up.

I'd have to press it multiple times, then kind of get it going.

It was, honestly, the lag and from a developer standpoint, I

don't know how they shipped that.

I don't know how they have that type of lag.

The lag on that is very interesting and tells me that they're, that they're

like, what they're writing that.

App in is very archaic or something very weird

It's okay, though You'll have the steam os beta out by then probably yeah, that's it.

Yep.

That's the solution

my thing about steam os on the the the new legion go is just like Linux

new hardware is gonna be a little flaky, you know, especially if,

like, the controller buttons aren't, like, mapped correctly, you know.

Um, it'll probably work, and it'll probably get fixed really

quickly after launch, especially if we have the, uh, SteamOS ISO.

Um, but, you know, I don't know.

Oh, sorry, go ahead.

No, go ahead.

I

was gonna ask, you mean for GoToGardener?

GoToGardener.

The button thing you're concerned about.

Go to mapping.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think if they're already, you know, cause what they

do with controllers, right?

Aside from handhelds, what they do with controllers is they do two things.

Number one, they add the controller to kind of just

steam as an application, right?

So they add support for that, which includes, uh, the actual, like

sometimes even the image, right?

Like as much as the image.

Um, so you can map that, but then on the SteamOS side all the time, they're

adding new drivers for new controllers.

Uh, so, and, and if they're already partnering with Lenovo, I fully expect

them to, to go ahead and do the same thing with the Go 2 and I don't know

if you were about to say this Hitech, but you mentioned in another chat, uh,

that it looks like it's the same, like probably the same driver for the Go 2.

Yeah.

So it looks, it looks functionally identical.

I mean, the shapes changed.

Maybe, maybe some of the internals have changed, but it, I mean,

it looks functionally the same.

They also, also, one more pet peeve I had about the original Legion Go

was that the start and select buttons were like at the bottom left corner.

Remember that?

They changed it, and now it's in a more convenient position, like at

the top right corner of like one of the controls on the top left.

Like, it's in a natural position.

They also added some buttons where those old start and select buttons were.

I don't, I think those are Windows functions, I don't

know what those do, but.

They're irrelevant for now.

Um, also one more thing too is that, uh, they mentioned that, uh, No,

no, this is a different company.

GPD released the, uh, Win 4, uh, 2025 edition, and they mentioned that they will

be shipping a version with SteamOS in it.

Or some, supported by Valve or some bullcrap like that.

But then The Verge came out and said that, No, we're not working with GPD.

So like, I mean, beta release of SteamOS, so like there's that too, but like it's

kind of a weird thing to say that Valve is officially supporting your device.

Yeah, they said that they said that the Win 5 or Win 4 was going to support.

SteamOS, parenthetical, with the help of Valve.

And their website still says that.

Even though Lawrence Yang came out and said, We ain't doing that, uh, Like,

we're not working with GPD, Like, we don't have any connection with them.

Well, you know, with

the help of Valve, Because Valve has done so much, Open source wise, Ed.

Yeah, yeah, Valve provided an operating system For you to

install on your GPD Win, man.

They totally helped out.

Yeah.

Uh, but I mean, dude, I was like, I heard that news like before, uh, Liam reached

out to them and asked like, what the heck?

And before, uh, Lawrence was like, We're not doing that.

I heard it and I was like, oh man, this is, this is like really cool.

We're gonna have two SteamOS powered devices on the market like really

soon, but no, I was I'm glad I didn't jump on it immediately and make a

video cuz That was just It was wild like and the response they gave to

Liam was did you guys read that?

Like what like Liam reached out to gaming, uh to uh, gpd and he was

like what like, what do you what?

What are you like saying here like this?

That's obviously not true And they were like, well, let me tell you one thing

and they just didn't respond to any of his questions And they were like

this is this is going to happen and you know valve reached out to us via

email like several years ago So they're definitely gonna do it Like and I it

just didn't make any sense like so there's a whole bunch of sounds like they

lost their credit card to a phishing attack

Hey, we put our credit card down for the first beta of that ice.

Yeah.

Yeah

Yeah, but bad form

but I mean like like we said SteamOS beta coming out soon So they'll

have their own way of getting it

With the, with the Legion Go, the original one, from my understanding,

someone has gotten like, I can't remember if it was Bazite or like, uh, cause

there's been a couple of like Halo, um, Halo or Halo or something like that.

Uh, versions of SteamOS or SteamOS like operating systems that they

put on Legion Go and that the controllers worked fine with it.

So, yep.

I don't, officially those drivers already exist, right?

In Linux, in the Linux kernel, for sure.

Yep.

And apparently Lenovo has been quite helpful to the Bazight

team, uh, last I recall.

Yeah, I've heard good things about Lenovo from them.

And Bazight just shipped their, uh, NVIDIA.

Um, their new NVIDIA ISO.

That's right.

That's, that's very exciting.

Uh, they've been working on this for a few months behind the scenes, and they

released it the day I did my Linus Tech Tips video, where I said, there is no

support for NVIDIA cards in GameScope.

And, and, so And you were wrong.

I was wrong, yeah.

Kyle Gospinish trolled the hell out of me.

Dude, I have done that, I hate it so much.

Yeah, but no, this is really cool.

This is really exciting because, uh, I have a machine out here in my living room

with a 3060, I think in it and, or a 3070.

And it's got, uh, uh, like I have Baz light on there and it, you can't

launch into game scope with it.

You can't go into game mode.

It's you have, you have Katie E and you launch the game, uh, launch steam through.

Big picture mode or whatever, uh, which might not sound like a big deal, but you,

if you remove that desktop, like layer, you're getting like two or three extra FPS

and things are just a little bit smoother.

And, uh, the overlay, right?

Like the steam overlay, um, injects itself into the game's executable.

From desktop mode, but if you're in GameScope, it doesn't have to do that,

and you actually gain performance when you bring up the overlay, because it's

actually the, uh, GameScope windowing compositor that adds the, the, the quick

access menu and the, the other menus and stuff over the game, which is really neat.

Um, there's a ton of like just little things that are, are

quality of life improvements.

Um, if you have a game that's like, uh, exclusive full screen, right?

GameScope captures that and prevents the game from actually

taking over full screen.

It prevents your monitor from mode switching, right?

Which can introduce like, like, a second or two of like, a black

screen that you, where you can't actually like play the game.

It's, it's so neat.

I, I, I don't know if you can tell, but like, I, I'm geeking out about this stuff,

and it's available now through Bazight.

Uh, there are some gotchas, there's some caveats, uh, the, the, it's, because of

the NVIDIA drivers, the open source ones, uh, most, there are some known issues

here, and most of those known issues can't be addressed by the Bazight team.

Like, they have to just wait for NVIDIA to upgrade the drivers.

Um, Which kind of sucks, but it's understandable And they have a big old

disclaimer if you switch to this you want to download this iso It's going

to say that same thing, um, but it is really cool nonetheless, and uh, it's

good to see that And I think that it might also be An indication that valve

has been working on supporting nvidia on game scope because You know, that would

have that would kind of be a necessity

Oh, yeah Yeah, and we kind of know that to be true, right?

Like we've seen some of some of the commits.

We've seen some of the, um, Oh, shoot.

What, what is it?

The, the change logs.

Yeah.

The change logs.

I was, I was trying to think of the specific feature where, uh, they

implemented for Nvidia game scope.

That was like, I don't know, like six months ago, there was a specific feature.

Like the LSS.

No, it wasn't like an NVIDIA feature.

It was like a feature of GameScope that was not supported in NVIDIA that they

implemented about five, six months ago.

Oh yes.

Oh yeah.

I'm blanking on it too.

Yeah.

Um, but that's fine.

But yeah, they, they've been working on it.

Um, but I would, I'm curious to see, so have you tried it yet

on your 30, 70 machine garden?

Not yet.

I I'm going to, uh, probably today, actually.

Sweet.

Yeah.

I'm looking forward to that here and more.

Yeah, make a video.

I'm going to.

Please do.

Yeah.

Yeah, so, that's super interesting, man.

I, I love Bazite.

I am curious as to what's gonna happen to Bazite once SteamOS actually releases.

Hmm.

But, uh, I think, uh, I wonder if, how much of Bazite's work has actually

gotten back into the SteamOS itself.

I would guess non zero.

Like, it's gotta be, there's gotta be some things that are heading back

that way, um, from, from Bazight.

Even if it's like, small, um, controller drivers or XTG configurations or

something, it's, I would imagine some of that's going back upstream.

Upstream is not really the right word, but you know.

Might have to

ask Kyle.

Yeah.

So, how SteamOS is going to go, and it's what it sounds

like more and more, is that.

They're going to roll out to like AMD, you know, and very, and they

even had to correct like AMD handheld.

So they're going to be going very like careful on what

architectures that they support.

So that's going to be AMD probably.

And then eventually they'll support.

And the thing is, even when the beta comes out, it might work on, let's say on

an NVIDIA machine with an AMD CPU, let's just say, um, it might work fine if you

download the drivers in desktop mode, but.

Um, in the future, they'll probably slowly roll out support for NVIDIA

and it looks like they already kind of are trying to work on that, but

who knows how long that will take.

So Bazight will be a good option for a while if you have, if you want to be more

of a Linux gamer and switch over and you have an NVIDIA card, because yeah, you'll

just have a better experience with that.

If, if that's the type of experience, especially if it's handheld, but.

Does a handheld even have Nvidia stuff,

except for laptops?

Yeah, I feel like for like general desktop usage, I'd probably

use Bazight on my desktop.

Like, once I switch over to Linux, of course.

Like, I would use Bazight for my regular desktop usage.

Without GameScope, though, since I probably wouldn't be running

things in GameScope on my desktop.

I mean, surely there's a benefit to that, though, but like, I also

like the ability to like alt tab out of my stuff to do other things

with multiple monitors, you know?

Mm hmm.

Stuff like that.

But, of course For, like, the living room, it's probably going to be either

Bazight or SteamOS at this point.

Yeah.

I think, I think, uh, uh,

I just drew a blank.

I don't even know where I was going.

Never mind.

I just totally

blanked.

I think you're at high tech.

I think desktop wise, I think Bazight's a great option.

And then for handheld and, like, TV, because I want to do, like, uh, I want to,

or Fremont or whatever, you know, when we get, uh, the specific like a console like

experience, like free, um, Fremont could be good, but steamOS also like would be

a good place, but steamOS on a desktop right now doesn't necessarily make sense.

Right.

Yeah.

It's certainly like you said, set top box handheld, it makes the most sense.

Um, and if you, if you also want to install on desktop, sure.

But like, yeah, that's not, That's not at least what I'm excited about.

It's definitely, I do want to see a set top box and I want to see it with

in it, like a high end NVIDIA because I want to see, I want to be able

to replace my console with a steam box, whatever we want to call it.

I just want to be able to do that.

Um,

well, it will be an Xbox.

I

mean, there's no question it will definitely be an Xbox.

I, uh, I've seen, I'm with you guys, I think, like, it makes the most sense for

a, for a TV situation, but, I've seen a significant amount of people who say I'm

really excited about the SteamOS beta because I want to replace Windows on my

desktop, which that's, you know, I, I would say I've seen probably six or seven

comments on just on my last video where I was talking about the Legion OS, right?

And, and so, and I've seen it a bunch across a bunch of other ones where I was

talking about SteamOS public release.

So there is a, there are a bunch of people out there who

really want to do this because.

It's going to have valve support behind it.

Like put it on there, put it on their desktop.

And I'm curious what you guys think, what changes would valve need to make

to steamOS to support people using it in that way, or, or would convince

you to use it in that way as a, as a desktop operating system replacement.

So it wouldn't take much, but they would definitely, and it wouldn't even

take much to make it so that it would support desktops, desktops better.

They just need to make sure that it doesn't go into game scope.

Automatically it needs to go to desktop first.

And that's honestly just a simple flag, like flag somewhere.

I believe I've even messed with that enough to do it on my own.

Cause I've like, I have an app I developed.

In SteamOS on the deck and desktop mode.

So I've done a lot of desktop modes, the kind of thing and things.

And let's just say there's a lot of, uh, the Steam Deck

horrible desktop replacement.

I'm just going to say it at least for a power user, but, um, SteamOS itself.

Great at Linux experience.

And I think people aren't going to.

Be too sad about it.

I don't think they're gonna have to do too much.

Like, everything's there, like, being able to search for applications, being able

to use a store to download applications.

Um, if they're used to that in Microsoft or, uh, or Mac, like, they'll be fine.

I also agree, too.

I think Valve would need to have an option to You know, just have

us go directly into desktop mode.

Because, as it stands right now, with uh, no matter what operating system

you're on, with like SteamOS, it'll go straight into the game mode, and then

you have to press the power menu to go to desktop, and to have to do that

every single time is going to be nerve wracking, is going to be annoying.

Because you can't really get work done in game mode, right?

Because people aren't just talking about like, playing video games too,

they're talking about doing like, stuff on their gaming PC as well, right?

I don't have a lot of reason to go.

Like if I do install SteamOS on my desktop, like you were saying earlier,

do I really need to go to game mode or am I just in desktop mode the entire time?

I mean, don't get me wrong.

I agree with James.

It needs to be a better desktop experience than it is today.

You know, if I look at like Ubuntu or other like there, there are better.

Desktop solutions out there today, even just Linux.

Um, so somehow they'll have to combine all of that for, for a

really nice desktop experience.

I don't think that's their focus.

I don't know if they'll ever come out with a version like that.

I think it will be either a fork or a Bazite kind of thing.

I just don't know.

I don't see them wanting to do a desktop version until they start thinking

they want that in their personal life.

And that maybe we'll get that.

Cause that's sometimes how it goes.

They kind of want something especially

for them.

They're big on the dog

thing, right?

Valve Big proponent of that, which is fine, which is fine.

Like, um, we'll have other options.

And, uh, the biggest thing is that they're supporting what they do support

proton and a couple other items like their, and their steam client work

great on other operating systems too.

So, um, to a point that is, so we're still going to be getting a lot of the benefit.

Right.

So as long as they're focusing on.

I'd rather them focus on NVIDIA and getting like a full experience for

everyone than the desktop itself.

But, once again, all they have to do is flip that switch of allowing the person

installing it to choose if they want to boot into desktop or into a game.

So, that's it.

That's it.

That's all they'd really have to do starting out.

And in SteamOS 1 and 2, they had that option at one point.

Like, you could choose which one you booted into.

And so I think right now they're focusing on game mode, but it really

would be trivial for them to add that.

I think so.

Um, I mean, and if you think about like the way, uh, compositors work and the

way stuff works, it is really easy.

They like every major, uh, like greeting, like login when, uh, system,

it doesn't matter if it's Katie or, you know, or whatever, they all let

you change that before you log in.

So it's really, it's really simple.

Um, But with that, let's move on to the next story.

Uh, this is interesting.

Uh, Tencent, uh, is designated as a Chinese military company

by the Department of Defense.

What, what is this about, Hitech?

It's exactly as he said, they've been designated as a Chinese

military company by the U.

S.

government.

And this doesn't have any consequences as of yet.

So, we haven't, they haven't seen any sanctions, but, you know, because Tencent

is more than a gaming company, they have their hands in a lot of different pies.

But, of course, the one most relevant to us is gaming.

And, uh, for those who don't know, they fully own Riot Games, who

owns League of Legends, Valorant, Arcane, um, uh, whatever else they

may come up with in the future.

And they also fully own Grinding Gear Games, and guess what games they make?

Path of Exile 1 and 2.

And then they also own majority ownership of companies like Visual

Arts, who makes, uh, like Clannad and the other visual novels by Key.

They also own majority in Turtle Rock Studios, who, you know, develop Left

4 Dead, Evolve, and Back 4 Blood.

And Clay Entertainment, who develops Don't Starve.

And Supercell, who develops Clash of Clans and whatever else

they, uh, is in that universe.

I know they have a couple.

And they also own a decent amount of shares in companies like ShiftUp that

make, uh, Stellar Blade and Nikkei?

How am I supposed to pronounce that?

I don't know.

And, of course, Epic Games, best known for Fortnite and the Unreal Engine.

Let's see, Bloober Team, who did Silent Hill 2 Remake.

They also directly own some shares in FromSoftware.

And, uh, Remedy?

Krafton, who did PUBG and the Callisto Protocol.

Yeah.

And Kadokawa, and How many times have we talked about Kadokawa on this show?

Like, too many times at this point, right?

Yeah, too many times.

And they also have some shares in Discord, Roblox Corporation, Platinum Games,

Playtonic Games, and Bohemia Interactive.

And there's a bunch of other companies I didn't recognize

in the Wikipedia list, but Hmm,

so it's fair to say if you have Epic Games Launcher installed on your

machine, then you have, uh, foreign military software on your computer?

Uh

oh.

Um I like giving Epic as much shit as possible.

It couldn't be worse than North

Korean Linux.

So They don't own a majority share of Epic, I believe, so No, it's

40%, I think.

So Epic is still controlled by, um, the founder.

Yeah, Tim

Sweeney.

So, yeah, that gives him a lot of sway.

Like, he wants it to be like that.

It gives him a lot of sway to not have to do certain things.

Um

Which is the saving grace, unlike legal legends, which is now classified as

spyware on our app on windows now, right?

With this new thing, I don't know.

All I know is that I'm old.

If the company, if the company that buys you out, owns military ads, or

does like does military contracts and stuff like that for foreign governments

and stuff like, ah, I don't know.

I have a hard time being empathetic.

But at the same time, I'm just like, I mean, you got bought up by China and

they tend to do this type of thing.

Like Chinese company that is, um, I, what will this mean for them though?

Like, does this mean anything

really serious for them?

I don't know.

I mean, I mean, I do, my company does, uh, does work with a company

that has a military contracts.

I think not military government and maybe potentially military as well.

But, uh, we also just do printers and stuff too.

I think we've talked about this.

But yeah, it's an interesting time, uh, because what's gonna

happen if, you know, the U.

S.

sanctions take effect?

0.

10 is like League of Legends is going to be

but but where does even the the sanctions thing come from, right?

Like have they done that with other Chinese military companies for the US?

I know that there are other things, right?

Like there's the TikTok thing and then there was the TP link.

Thing right where, uh, and even the TP think TP link

thing seems to be in progress.

Like they don't, I don't think we've gotten word on whether or not they're

going to do anything about TP link.

So TP link is the router modem company that sells a ton of

modems and meshes in the U.

S.

Um, but the Department of Justice has threatened, I think, to ban the sale

of TP Link, but I don't think anything actually came of that, but, but this just,

this doesn't even sound like that, right?

This just is just, like, have they done, has the U.

S.

government done sanctions on any other companies that have been designated

as Chinese military companies?

By the Department of Defense, too, like, this isn't like the

trade commissions or anything.

Yeah, that's This is this is just the military kind of I would imagine what

this means is like the department of defense Internally is just not

going to allow this kind of software.

Uh, but I don't know for sure

Yeah, don't don't install league of legends on your on your

government contracting laptop.

Don't do that So or any tencent mobile games like you can't have

them on your phone like that or

fortnight

Yeah, no.

Yeah, no fortnight

Does this mean you can't install any games that use Unreal

on your, on your I mean, you

shouldn't be, if you are working for the government, you shouldn't be installing

any, any games on, on those machines.

Yeah, like that's,

like, that's a little ridiculous.

Like, get your own computer.

Yeah, even with the decent amount of shares thing, that's a, a gray area.

What this ultimately, I think, is gonna be is either two things.

Like, either it's gonna be a big deal for whatever the agenda's

gonna be for the next little while.

Not getting into politics too much because you never know.

Like Tik Tok, Tik Tok's on the verge of being banned completely.

Um, in fact, I think they are going

to be banned on the 19th, unless I don't know, they sell to

Microsoft or something like that.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Yep.

And so this means that.

With that happening and let's say they could do it the who knows who

knows they could attack it It could be something I I would be a little worried.

Let's say if I was right games personally I know and I know that

they're not happy about this But I also think that the right games location

is based in United States, right?

So Yeah Yeah, it's already kind of like so like it's different than

the tick tock thing It's already been, uh, segmented a little bit.

So, I know, other, it will be, it will be interesting.

Let's just, let's just say, like, it's a, it's a weird thing to say that League

of Legends is a Chinese military company.

You know, it's not, but it's, you know, it's just interesting.

It's an interesting topic that will probably not go anywhere,

but you never know these days.

Yeah, I wouldn't say that, like, League of Legends is a, like, I wouldn't just

blanket say that it's part of the Chinese military, but I would say like based

on this, it seems like our military considers it potentially hostile, right?

Like that's what this news story says to me.

Like it's a potential avenue of attack, right?

Like if even though it's owned by an American company, like if that

American company is primarily owned or wholly owned by Tencent, right?

Then it, it could be a vulnerability at some point.

Yeah.

Entirely owned by Tencent too.

Yeah, they own a hundred percent of it.

Yeah.

And they also run a, uh, they also run an anti sheet that they recently

implemented into League of Legends, but it's been a part of Valant for

like, the entirety of the game.

Oh, I believe it's, uh, I, yes.

Uh, so I think, was it called Vanguard?

I think Vanguard, yeah.

Vanguard.

Which, I mean, a kernel level anti sheet

Vanguard is brutal.

And it, yeah.

Fucking sucks.

And we don't take it lightly when James swears.

No, I have, like, You cannot launch video editing software with that thing.

It will fucking scream at you.

So, if I can't, like, Come on.

I'm sorry.

This is one where I'm like, I wanted to try Valorant, and it was such a mess.

And I've never really had that in a long while that I'm just like

okay You guys can just really screw off like I really pisses me off

Yeah, the the thing about anti cheat like that that is essentially a rootkit

You know, like it is literally like digging into the kernel of your operating

system and it has access to the memory of every program on your machine, right?

Like it can get in there and get whatever it wants and you have no control over it.

And like you said, you can't even launch like legitimate other software.

So it's like.

Uh, that's fully owned by a, by a potentially hostile foreign

military, and that is terrifying.

That is very bad.

Yeah.

So, on a semi related note, uh, Genshin Impact recently suffered a, like,

hack via vulnerability through their anti, like, kernel level anti cheat.

And,

uh, that is a concern.

People like to, people like to claim that it's not an issue

because it's never happened before.

But it has happened.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Are they gonna, is that their guise for when China wants

to sneak in some information?

Like, that's, that's a little about my worry.

Like, when is this stuff gonna be compromised?

I'm not really the biggest like privacy person, but at the same

time, like I'd play League of Legends now on like a, a box.

I wouldn't do it in the same, like, especially with that type

of anti cheat, I would not do it in the same, on the same computer.

I'd have, uh, passwords and a bunch of other stuff on, and I'm not even

that big of a privacy person, but

yeah, definitely with that type of stuff.

I am.

What this means is you can't play League of Legends on Linux anymore.

And for the longest time you were able to surprisingly.

Well, I mean, thankfully, we can't install those kind of root kits on

Linux, you know what I'm saying?

Like, at least from my perspective, I think that it's, you know, I

don't even want to have that option.

Like, it's just terrifying to me.

They can

make their own operating system, uh, Linux operating system, right?

Like, their own flavor.

Yeah, I mean, North Korea

did it.

North Korea did it.

And you can probably install, you can install that on your Steam Deck, probably.

Yeah.

Oh, that would be interesting.

Uh, I don't know.

We're all fans of hardware.

You know, SteamOS and hardware, you know, handheld games.

And Switch 2 fans are actually going a little nuts about the possibility of an

optical sensor on the Switch 2 Joy Con.

Uh, Rich, I know you have to go in a few minutes.

Give me your thoughts on this.

I am excited too.

I like the, it was one of my favorite features of the Lenovo

Legion Go was that, you know, mouse, um, detachable mouse basically.

Um, and I love playing shooters on my handheld.

Um, but I'm not, you know, I don't like the traditional

console controls for shooters.

I like flick stick and I like mouse and keyboard.

So this gave me a chance to do, to do, to have the mouse control.

So I'm excited for this.

I also am excited for this, obviously from what I think is their perspective, right?

Like DS emulation.

So like DS.

Uh, 3ds, how does that, you know, translate over here?

Um, what I thought we were going to see with the switch to, um, which I

don't think anymore, but just based on the leaks that we've seen is I thought

what they were going to sort of like officially do, there's a, there's

an accessory for the switch one.

I think it's called flip up or something like that, where you

rotate the switch to be vertical.

So, and then, and then you like in Tate

mode.

Yeah, exactly.

Like in Tate mode.

And then you, you can attach the Joy Cons like that.

So I thought that was going to be a way to also do like DS 3DS emulation

so that you can have like dual screens.

Um, so I guess they're not doing that, but, but this otherwise just looks, I like

the idea of being able to use a mouse.

So real quick before you go.

Yeah,

do you think it's going to be called the switch to you though?

Because I

personally yes, they have to do it.

I know like I know we joke a lot about the super switch And that's the best.

That's the second best possible name But they have to they have

to go with like continuity.

It's all about continuity I think for for the success of the switch

you can't have anything that feels like In a slight upgrade or like,

uh, uh, like slight tangent, it has to be, this is the next switch.

You were a success with the switch.

You have to do it again now with switch two.

Right.

And that goes, and there was the question of whether or not that

question is no longer existing, but like whether or not it would be

backwards compatible, that too, right?

Like they have to be backwards compatible.

Otherwise, what, what is even the point.

Right.

I mean, that would be a good point to say why they would use superswitches

to indicate, oh, well, it is backwards compatible, it's just the better switch.

But I think you're right, too.

I don't know if that would sell as many, uh, units as just, uh, What feels

like a complete new iteration on the hardware, which I've seen the leaks and

everything I'm sure you guys have too.

It does not look like it a real iteration on the hardware

I am very underwhelmed on it.

I'll be honest So part of the reason why I don't believe it's gonna be called

the switch to it's a two factor thing.

So first and foremost Nintendo's just never called anything v2 like we've

never seen an NES to SNES to Nintendo's just never called anything v2 like

we've never seen an NES to SNES to N64 2, Gamecube 2, probably the closest

thing is the 2DS, but that's not even like, you get what I'm saying, right?

Yep.

Yeah, so another, another thing is that like, I remember Microsoft talking about

this, like, like Microsoft was talking about why they didn't want to call

their, yeah, they didn't want to call their Xbox, the next Xbox, the Xbox 2.

Yeah.

Because the PlayStation 3 was already there, and like, most consumers

will see the PS3 versus the Xbox.

Oh, It's a three.

That means it's better.

Like, it's the dumbest thing, but it's also something consumers actually do.

Well, that's why they're gonna call it the Switch U.

Oh my god, if they do that, then they deserve everything that's coming to them.

So, um, Xbox would have definitely named it Xbox 2 if the original Xbox

sold a hundred plus million units like there's There's no doubt in my mind.

Well, then again, it's Microsoft and Microsoft you you guys Gardner and

James You guys are both developers.

So you guys know Microsoft is the worst at naming anything.

They are so bad.

The Linux subsystem for Windows versus the Windows subsystem for Linux.

Oh my god, yeah.

Um, so, okay, so there is a doubt in my mind that they

would have named it logically.

But, you know, and then to your point about Nintendo.

I think you make a good point, except I think, um, about Nintendo.

Uh, never naming anything to, I am all about like leadership, like who is the

leader at an organization or what is, what is the culture at an organization?

And so like Microsoft's culture has changed ever since Satya

Nadella took over, right?

Nintendo's culture has been evolving for a long time.

And right now their culture, I think is more keen on sort of like.

The.

Being up to date, let's say, right.

Like with the current standards, I, that's why I think they're going to be

backwards compatible to like, they've been, you know, consistently like, Oh,

we're just going to do our own thing.

And as far as like, you know, low end hardware, they're

going to continue doing that.

Um, but I think they know that they have to go with familiarity and

backwards, compelling compatibility.

Mm.

I just don't think they're going to do a number.

I think they'll do some weird thing.

Like they always do.

Super switch.

That's the best

non number answer.

Well, and they've had backwards compatibility before.

Wii, Wii U, kind of stuff like that.

So.

GameCube, or Game Boy,

also?

Yeah, Game Boy, Game Boy.

They have backwards.

Super switch advance.

Yeah, so.

Yeah, dude.

Dude.

I'm here for super duper switch.

I'm here for that one.

I like it.

Super duper switch.

Super.

Ultra Switch.

Yeah.

At least, at least we didn't.

Oh dude.

Ultra Switch would be great because that would be a callback to the Oh my God.

Yeah.

I love that.

What's,

what's the, uh, what's the bits for this?

Um, it's a 64

bit.

No, I know,

but, uh, the, uh, ah,

don't worry about it, . So I, at least we can all agree that I'm not gonna call it.

The switch You or the new Nintendo switch?

Oh, that's the other.

That's the other one.

Oh, that's what they're gonna call.

It's the new Nintendo Switch.

Yeah.

Oh my God.

I was thinking memory bus, by the way.

What's the memory bus.

Oh, memory bus.

Yeah.

Like is it They nap 50?

It could be 1 92 switch.

1 92.

I'm here for it.

Hey, that that would be better than the new Nintendo switch.

I would go with Switch 1 92.

The new Nintendo

Switch U.

Super Mario

192.

Right, yeah, Super Mario 192.

Dude, what happened between Super Mario Bros.

3 and Super M What happened to Super Mario Bros.

4 through Super Mario Bros.

191?

Yoshi's Island.

Yeah, dude, Yoshi's Island, what's up?

Oh, man.

Hmm.

That's awesome.

You know, I think

Alright, guys.

I was gonna say, I think I gotta head out.

Alright, take care, man.

Rich,

thank you for joining us, my friend.

It was a pleasure to see you.

Yeah, I appreciate you joining us.

Yeah, thanks for having me on, really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Talk soon.

Alright, see ya.

So, here's something I was thinking.

And, you know, everybody knows that I give Nintendo a really hard time because

of some of their, like, IP issues, right?

Right.

But, I also really applaud Nintendo when they deserve it.

Uh, the fact that they are innovating, I mean, this is something

that, um, Lenovo did, right?

But, also, like, It's still, like, an innovation for a console to

have an optical mouse, essentially, available to, for gameplay.

That's huge!

For, for, like, there are very few other, uh, game companies out there

that innovate as much as Nintendo does.

Right?

They're willing to take risks.

I do like that a lot.

That, I mean, I'll be honest though, beyond that, there's not much risk taking

with the switch and even that is not really much of a risk in the sense of

like, it could, it might not be used, but I don't think it's going to like, it's not

like going from Wii to Wii U kind of thing and you know, it's, but I do, I do agree.

Like they do at least iterate our, uh, innovate that is.

And so does, uh, Sony like with the PlayStation, they try to Innovate

to in their own ways, like with their controllers and stuff, but

yeah, well, and the other thing that I was thinking it like, James, you brought

it up earlier where you're like, what's going to happen when we hit Moore's law?

And there's not going to be a much more performance to extract from hardware.

Innovation, right?

Like, having like, we've settled, we've kind of stagnated on the

traditional controller layout.

Like, every 3rd party controller I have looks exactly like this.

in terms of inputs, right?

And it's like having, like, that's one of the reasons I'm really excited

about the Steam Controller 2, is because it has, like, all of the same

stuff that the Steam Deck has, but it's going to be available to anybody

who isn't playing on a Steam Deck.

And so being able to innovate is going to be huge in terms of

input, in terms of experience.

I, I just am, I'm, You know, last week I said that I have zero interest in

In the switch 2 but like after seeing this i'm kind of like okay I can see

this being pretty neat, especially if they implement it in a game like

mario Like how would you implement that

or play call of duty cross play with you know a playstation player?

You're able to own them more because you have better precision.

Yeah or halo

Or Halo.

Or

Halo, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that was

Yeah, well that's on our list, right?

Like, Halo and, uh, and possibly other games are gonna

be coming to the Switch too.

Uh, and the PlayStation 5.

So, yeah, I mean This is from, uh, Windows Central, right?

Like, this, this news?

Yeah, Jez Corden, so Jez

Corden,

yeah.

Yeah, so, you know, Halo, the, the game that basically made Microsoft the, you

know, Xbox the juggler it is today.

Imagine that coming to, like, PlayStation 5 and, like, Switch and stuff, like,

you would have never seen that coming.

Like, I know, like, back in the day, they were, like, trying to, they were

trying to get Halo on the Nintendo DS, like, the first one, like, a

long, long time ago, I remember that.

Nothing ever came from it, I don't think, but, I mean, it was an ambitious

idea at the time, and now it's being realized in the form of, like, what was

it, like, five or six full Halos now.

Yeah, I mean, imagine, like, imagine, Bill Gates is standing on stage, he unveils the

Xbox 360, er, the original Xbox, and then The Rock comes out and says, And you can

buy our best games on the PlayStation 2 as well, or, you know, like, It's ridiculous.

Like, it's good for gamers, but it doesn't make any sense for Microsoft.

I don't know.

Yeah,

it really depends on if you're trying to sell units, or you're

trying to sell, exclusivity.

If you're there's a lot of reasons to open it up.

And I like that Microsoft's doing that with Xbox.

I think they're, I think they're doing a good job at least to PC.

But yeah, opening up to PlayStation and switch is a little weird.

Because Microsoft owns the PC space for the most part for gaming, right?

So that makes sense to bleed into that area.

It's, it's kind of like, I'm reminded of Microsoft's, uh, strategy in the early

nineties, embrace, extend, extinguish.

And that's really what this feels like to me.

Like if they can get their flagship games, which they don't really have

a whole lot of anymore, even though they keep buying up IPs, like if they

can do that, what else can they do?

Like, you know, especially if.

They're selling these games on other platforms and giving them away for free on

Xbox with their game pass It's like I just don't understand the strategy here and and

my paranoia about Microsoft is kicking in

so Okay, guys get get surprised in like What it how long has it been

since they've acquired their companies like two years now since they've been

really acquiring things So, let's say give it four to six years for A

lot of the projects they probably, uh, started or like made, uh, some of

these game companies like blizzard, uh, um, Bethesda and stuff like that.

Like there's probably going to be a huge plethora of like, um, very

specific flagship type games coming in like four years from now, um, is a

good chance because, uh, they probably want to, they bought up those IPs.

They're going to want to use them.

It'll be interesting.

So I'm, I'm not going to say that Microsoft's out of the game yet,

or even out of the game of like out of the games of games, but they're

changing their strategy and it'll be interesting to see how it plays.

Cause even if they get all those games onto every device, I think

they'll make a killing and they'll make a lot more money technically

than if it was just exclusive on Xbox.

And so.

We'll see though.

We'll see.

I mean Sony, I mean the same could, I mean the same could apply to Sony too.

With them releasing all of their games day one on everything too, but yeah.

They're not.

Well yeah.

They're only releasing

for, and they're not even doing day ones for Steam but, Uh, Sony

and Nintendo are very different.

And I don't know if, you know what I'm saying?

Like, I don't know if that's the right way or the wrong way.

Like they're different and they want to innovate and they want to do their own

thing, but that doesn't mean that, well, especially with hardware limitations, like

what are they going to sell in the future?

Like what, what are they going to do in six years, 10 years when hardware doesn't,

um, improve as much as they need it to.

Like, I'm just curious on that.

I don't know, man.

It's, it's, it's a bit of a conundrum and like all the stuff really

like ticks me off about Microsoft because I know Microsoft can do

better with their Xbox brand.

Like, I know a lot of like, yeah, like Gardner said earlier, a lot of our

comments are like, this seems like Xbox hate, but we don't hate Xbox.

We're kind of upset because we liked Xbox like in the past.

So, yeah, like I,

I still have my 360 hooked up in my living room, just saying.

Yeah, like if, uh, like if we hated Xbox, we probably wouldn't

be talking about this at all.

And yeah, we'd be like irrational fans.

Oh no,

you'd, you'd be talking about Xbox a lot more, but yeah, we

don't talk about Xbox enough, but like it, oh, haters love to talk.

Like, okay, I will say that I will say this.

They bought up, like, give them time to cook, give them time to

just maybe get some IPs rolling.

Cause it's not going to be an instant thing with games.

Yeah.

But I agree from the hardware standpoint, if you're a big Xbox fan, like from the

hardware standpoint, it's going to be.

Yeah.

Like, I mean, they, they put out, they still put out

games, like really good games.

Like I hear like Indiana Jones is good.

Like I know you've played it, right?

Yeah.

It's

really good.

Yeah.

So this is their play.

I don't know.

I'm not angry with Xbox for doing what they're doing.

I do think that they should have switched over to a handheld much suit.

Like Like this year or last year and that should be their flagship

and uh, have it be like able to plug into the TV or something.

I think they're going to have to do some type of play like that.

I'd love to see that.

Um, that'd give me more faith in Xbox if they went and just did a different

play cause that's kind of what gamers are wanting more and more is to

be able to play on the go, right?

And so, not everyone of course, but it'd be interesting.

Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting time for Microsoft and Xbox fans.

We don't know what's gonna happen, but yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, maybe they should introduce some AI into what they're doing.

Oh, no.

Oh, no.

Have they?

Does the Xbox have AI?

Sorry.

Like, I haven't used an Xbox in a while.

I haven't either.

I think Copilot is on Xbox now.

Uh, so you can write some really shitty code on Xbox too?

Well, I think Copilot Wait, yeah, I don't think it's just

I'm just thinking, so Cortana, like they've, they've expired.

They, they, they like, um, got rid of their AI, right?

There one where you can talk to it.

I was like, Cortana, Cortana.

Yeah.

I think that is such a missed opportunity.

I'm not going to lie.

It was one of my favorite from branding and on X Box.

Imagine a little holographic, like Cortana popping up every

time you asked it for stuff.

That'd be awesome.

I would have an X Box right now if that was the case.

Yeah.

They even got, uh, Jen Taylor to do like.

It was brand synergy and Microsoft, let's just say they messed it up.

Yeah, they could always bring it back.

They could.

I bet you that'd be a lot.

I bet you people would rather have Cortana than Copilot.

I'd let her have Cortana than

any of the other AI stuff out there.

I just think it's a cool thing.

When you installed, uh, Windows 10, if you had audio drivers, Cortana would,

like, pop up and be like, A little bit of Wi Fi here, and it was like, just

weirdly sassy, and it just didn't feel like any Like, it didn't feel appropriate

for what you were doing, and it was like, what is going on with this?

Why are we doing

this?

Cortana is kinda sassy in the games, in like, the original game.

Yeah.

But like, also, you know, how many people have played Halo

enough to know what Cortana is?

Versus people who are Hey

man, Halo used to be on top of the world, like, a long time ago.

It used to be among our generation.

I don't know.

I don't know what you're complaining about.

All I know is I, I did not, I I enjoy Cortana, uh, as a fun brand.

I, I, I hear you on that though.

It is kind of like jarring, especially when you're doing

all that to have avo a voice.

I don't necessarily want a voice at that point, but what I want is if I'm gonna

use AI and I do use like, um, Siri and stuff like that, I, I, I do use it.

Quite a bit.

Like when I'm cooking to say, Hey, add this to my shopping list,

I

would rather do Cortana, I'll be honest.

Like, just because that's fair of halo and this nostalgia and everything,

it just feels like I'm talking to an AI instead of like, just a bunch of

machine learning and some other stuff, you know, that's, that's my take on it.

Yeah.

It'd be fun.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, speaking of, you know, AI voice assistance, Being performed

by like, uh, actual actresses like Jen Taylor, uh, SAG after negotiations,

uh, surrounding the use of AI for voice actors has been ongoing for years at this

point, or almost a year at this point.

And, uh, what are we, what's going on with this high tech?

So apparently according to Jennifer Hale, best known as a commander

shepherd in, uh, the Mass Effect games.

Um, essentially it's holding up.

It's holding up, uh, game development.

Not only is it doing that, but it's also, like, you know, people are without jobs.

I don't know if she's referring to, like, voice actors or,

like, developers, but, like,

Yeah.

So, is it, is this, like, a negotia So, is this, um, What's the word I'm looking for?

Um, so they're doing, like, a protest kind of thing.

Is it, uh, Damn it.

Um,

A strike?

Yeah, I believe it was a strike.

So, essentially, what's going on is that, you know, voice actors are concerned that

you can just use AI to generate their voices and use them and they don't get

paid their dues because instead of having them take, like, however many takes it

takes to get a good line, you just type it in and then it just generates it.

And then they didn't do any of the work and as such, you don't pay them.

So at the day, it's about getting like fair compensation.

This is really messed up and this is happening in the movie industry

and some others like with actors and stuff that these companies think

they can own your voice or own like likenesses and stuff like that.

Um, and here's another thing.

Uh, like with this specifically too, is that, yeah, is it holding

up game development and all that?

Yeah.

That's the whole point of a strike.

That's a whole point of this type of stuff is to put pressure on the company

to say, Hey, you can't do this stuff.

And I think it's pretty reasonable to say, yeah, you can't AI generate my

voice unless I get big time residuals.

Like if they want to start doing this type of stuff, you're going to

need to get some, uh, Some type of, uh, royalty pay and stuff like that.

You're good.

They And at the end of the day, they're going to train their ML.

Like, and another thing is, they'll probably resolve this in a couple years.

They're going to train some AI voices that are going to, like, meld with two others.

Like, and just train it off of their, uh, voices.

And then they don't have to pay them anything, because

they don't have royalties.

You know, once it becomes a different voice, then I believe that they're

just going to be able to go off and create their own games with it.

It's, it's, it's a very troubling thing.

I would say

there's two things that I think need to happen with this.

The first thing, like you were saying, James, there needs to

be residuals or royalties or something, and it needs to cost.

80 percent of what it costs to pay an actor to actually do it, right?

Like it has to be prohibitively expensive to the point where they just say, you

know what, we'll get better results if we hire someone and it's not going

to be that much more expensive, right?

That's a, that would be important thing for the, uh,

the actors guild to, to, to do.

To get in their contract with game developers.

Uh, but the other thing I think is that there needs to be some kind of like AI

training material provenance, right?

Like there needs to be like proof of where an AI.

An AI's training data came from, and it needs to be like,

almost like a blockchain.

It needs to be an, like a, a scrutable ledger of where data came

from and how, like where an AI is generating its information from.

If you want ethical, cause it's not ethical if you don't do it otherwise.

I think, I think I'm on that board of it's not, it's not ethical.

Right.

Exactly.

Yeah.

That's the word I was looking for.

Um, but like having that providence, having that, like, um, ledger,

if you will, would be huge, uh, for, for this kind of stuff.

Because then, you know, uh, Microsoft couldn't get away with saying,

It's okay to steal shit as long as you're training an AI with it.

You know, like, they literally said that.

I mean, granted, copyright infringement isn't stealing, but I think if you

are infringing someone's copyright and you're doing it by scraping stuff

from their website, I think that, that bandwidth, uh, is, is theft.

Like, if you're taking it against their will, right?

You're using someone's bandwidth.

Yeah, and I mean, like, like, the sort of, like, vocal theft is.

It's far more damning than say, I don't know, downloading a clip of like

them talking from YouTube and then editing that around to make it sound

like they're making another word.

And

like, it's totally different because you can make them say whatever you want.

And in like, and it's not just like, game studios have access

to this, like it's anyone.

Like you can make anyone say anything.

Someone could take your videos, put them in like an algorithm, you know, filter

out the music and stuff, and then put it into like, A voice AI, then they can

just make their own bootleg versions of like, Gardener Bryant or Games Revealed.

Yep.

That's why I actually wrote a license, uh, For, for AI stuff, so, The, I

wrote a license called the Authoral Integrity License, And it's basically

like, the only way you're allowed to use any of my content, For in a machine

learning situation is if you're using it to provide accessibility to someone.

So like adding like text transcriptions or something like that, like that's the

only way I want my voice used with AI.

I

think that's a good idea.

That is a good idea.

I, yeah, go ahead.

So yeah, with, I don't, here's from a gamer standpoint, I don't want to be

playing the next mass effect and have the main character be AI generated.

I can tell.

Even to this point, I can tell a lot of people can't cause I, I have AI generated

my voice for my audience before and they couldn't tell, which I was a little like,

Hmm,

interesting because I, I have some tools just for fun to do it.

But I can tell, and I think, I feel like we've had this discussion before, but I

don't know what I would like to see is, uh, let's say grand theft auto or these

big games where I want to go interact and have like a very uniquely like.

AI generated, uh, script with one NPC or something, I think that'd be really fun.

Like the crazy person, just going crazy, like being able to

use my voice and talk with them.

That would be fun.

AI generated for that is fine.

In my opinion, as long as you're not using the likeness of someone.

Or even using that data that was generated, like you need to pay them.

But I don't want my main characters to have AI generated.

I just don't want them.

That's gonna be a big no for me.

The only, like, I agree with you James.

The only way I would want to have like AI generated gameplay stuff

is if I'm playing like a VR game.

And I'm going around interacting with NPCs, and I can converse with them in

real time, and they're contextually aware of like, what's going on, any

quests that I have, or, or even if I just have to tell them, hey, I'm on a quest.

That would be kinda neat, right?

To ha to, if they have the parameters of the game and like, what can

be done, that would be cool.

Uh.

So, I think we have They're already working on, they're already

working on this type of stuff.

And so like you can get a mod for Grand Theft Auto V that

you can go and chat with them.

It will run it through I believe a chat GPT, and this was like years ago.

Yeah, I'm sure it's even improved better.

Better.

So I think we've actually talked about a game like this on the Steam Next Fest.

It's not a, it's not like an RPG.

But like yeah, yeah, it's a uh, Yar

. It's like a girlfriend simulator, right?

It's like,

yeah, yeah.

Where you have to not, where you have to spend time with her, but also not

piss her off enough to like murder.

You have her murder you.

Oh my God.

It's the fun, it's the funniest thing ever.

Uh,

what's the thing in the

game again?

AI to you?

I believe, I think it's about to come out this month.

Oh, that's right.

Yeah.

We talked about that and I was like, why

? I mean, it, it's an innovative use of AI and apparent, and from what I understand.

The art itself wasn't AI generated and I understand that uh, maybe

the like voice actors have Residuals or something like that.

I don't know the full details on it.

But

as long as it's fair That's what I care about because that type of like

that's innovative and I like that That's where I want to see the AIs kind

of stuff go But I want to make sure people are compensated to like I agree.

Yeah for sure I think that's the I think that's the only like real issue with

AI because like You AI is quite capable of doing things, like, but the problem

is that, like, you know, you can use AI to steal people's voices, you can use

AI to steal entire people's art styles, too, and that's messed up, especially

if you're using it for commercial use.

Like, it's one thing if some random guy, you know, does something

for free and doesn't, like, he doesn't make money from it,

but it's It's unethical and it's immoral, and it's probably illegal,

but they're doing it anyway.

Illegal?

Well, I don't know.

Copyright infringement is a criminal offense.

Yeah, but I don't know if, um, training a system based off of,

like, copyright material, they're not publishing it, they're not doing it,

they're training a system that is a derivative work, which is appropriate.

Which is copyright infringement.

No, a derivative, a derivative, So, uh,

Unless something is licensed to allow derivative works, I don't know.

Any derivative work of a copyrighted work is copyright infringement.

Unless it's, unless it's like, um, uh, what's the word?

God damn it.

Social media.

Unless

it's transformative enough.

But, I would argue, I would argue that an AI algorithm is not creative

enough to generate something that is, Uh, transformative.

I think the creative process is what is transformative and therefore AI cannot

be anything other than derivative work.

Sorry, go ahead.

I'm sorry.

No.

This is, this is a hotbar.

This is a debate.

This is a debate.

That's what I'm talking about is derivative of like, um, everything, all

the stuff we've paintings, everything, everything we've done in like, as,

uh, the human race is derivative work.

To a point, right?

And so, but it has, like, I think you're correct on this though.

Like it has to be different enough.

And that's what I was going for.

And I do think like, if you want the art style of maybe one person, but done

in a completely different, uh, like type of painting, maybe let's say that

could maybe be argued as derivative enough, but we need to, my, my whole

point with all this is that we need.

addendums and stuff to maybe copyright law and some other

laws, uh, I definitely think

so.

Yeah, because copyright law currently may not be enough, may

not be enough to exactly cover, you know, every AI scenario.

I think it will, I think it will be eventually, but not right now.

I do want to mention that, uh, someone, I remember like in the early days of AI,

someone fed chat GPT, the entirety of like all All of the existing George R.

R.

Martin books on the Game of Thrones and they used that to A.

I.

generate the next two books and then George R.

R.

Martin got pissed off and sued Chad GBT and I think they had to remove it.

Interesting.

Hmm.

He's big enough too.

I, I think right now because the big companies are, are benefiting

from this enough that they aren't going to be pushing for anything.

Like, so you can.

Big companies really like this because they don't have to pay people as much.

But if it switches and, uh, up and comers and D whatever, then use these

things to then make something that let's say, uh, derivative of Disney, Mickey

mouse, something like, even though that is that copyrights up now, but

they do something that maybe isn't up.

Like they do maybe something newer.

Then you're gonna start seeing big companies probably push for, uh, laws.

So, we could see it, we might not.

It really depends on big companies, unfortunately, I

think.

I

think we, I think we have to see the laws sooner.

Like, sooner than later.

Because I remember, you guys know Jeff Geerling?

He does a lot of, like, Raspberry Pi videos.

His voice is like, for like, like promoting a product, a product.

And I mean, like, you know, people like MKBHD's voice has been stolen

to a number of different times.

Cause you know, 15 million subscribers and it's kind of just what happens to you.

I think, and I, I'm sure like at some point, like we'll have our

own version of SAG AFTRA, but like, instead of voice actors, we're like

content creators on the internet.

I don't know if that will ever happen.

They tried to do it a couple years ago in Germany.

Like, I think, probably 2016 now that I think about it.

Like, quite a while ago at this point, but they, I don't know where

it went, but I haven't heard anything about it since they announced there.

Might be time.

Yeah.

Uh, my question is, if we ever see, like, AI generated NPCs in games, what

is that gonna mean for speedrunning?

Well, you know, they'll just go back to speedrunning Super Metroid.

Yeah, that's true.

Uh, was Super Metroid done at AGDQ this year?

Uh, probably.

I'm not gonna lie, I haven't seen it.

Yeah.

I kind of just added this as a topic to mention that it happened.

It was a, it was a, that was a good transition though.

I feel pretty good about that.

You know, imagine AI generated Super Metroid.

That'd be so funny.

Oh man.

You've seen AI generated in Minecraft, right?

Like, it looks like Minecraft, and then you turn, like, you turn like nine degrees

left, and then you turn nine degrees back, and it's completely different terrain.

Yeah, I was thinking, uh, AI generated Minecraft is what like the trailers

for the Minecraft movie looks like.

Like those, those characters look horrific, dude.

They look

horrific and I'm here for it, but I'm here for it as a horror

movie, not as a Minecraft movie.

Dude, so we should like recut the Minecraft trailer,

dude, that'd be awesome.

As a horror.

That, that would be.

Man, Jack Black.

That,

the wolf, dude, that wolf is disgusting looking, like why, dude?

Dude.

Why did Jack

Black sign onto the movie, man?

We'll never know.

Probably, he has kids, man.

He probably

played Minecraft, too.

Yeah.

That is true, that is true.

Kind of reminds me of how, um, Raul Julia did the Street Fighter movie.

It was objectively a bad movie, but man, he, like, made it, like, watchable.

Really?

I haven't seen it.

Yeah, it's so like, you know how, you know what Street Fighter is, right?

It's like, it's a series of one on one fights, but they

turn into like a war epic.

It's the stupidest thing ever.

And you know, and you guys know Guile, right?

He's saving private Guile.

Alright, so Guile, yeah, so Guile, he's supposed to be this like,

epitome of American culture.

Yeah.

But he's played by Jean Claude Van Damme, who's like, he's like, the most

like, Belgian American I've ever seen.

That's funny.

Yeah.

And no one throws any fireballs either.

No one has any powers.

No Hadoukens?

No Hadoukens.

Oh my god.

And Bison has to use, like, rocket boots to, like, fly around and shit.

What?

The only special move you ever see is, like, Guile doing the somersault.

Which, I mean, is Jean Claude Van Damme.

He could probably do that in real life, but still.

Yeah.

That's hilarious.

Oh my god.

So, with this speedrunning stuff, Never thought about it, but from an

AI standpoint, like, do you think you're going to start getting,

like, we probably already have it.

I haven't really looked in speed running in a while.

I watched like half life speed runs is what I would do because there's a lot

of, if you watch those, holy crap, they find loopholes to get through those maps.

So fast.

I am shocked.

Um, portal also portal

has some cool speed, right?

I haven't seen the speed.

No, that's good.

I'll

have to see those, but AI.

Okay.

Like, would be able to speedrun things faster than anything, like, do

you think they've trained anything?

Have you seen anything where they've trained AI to

speedrun?

Uh, I saw Sethbling do like some real, like, long time ago, like 5 or 6 years

ago, I saw him do, uh, some AI training for just playing Super Mario Bros.

Or maybe Super Mario World.

But I don't think I saw him do AI stuff.

Um, But that would be interesting.

Like being able to like have, uh, uh, what is that?

The task bot, you know, the task bot, uh, having that do some kind of AI

stuff would be really interesting.

Being able to like find exploits through like AI based

fuzzing would be interesting.

I don't know.

That's a good, it's a good idea.

Yeah.

It's, I mean, I don't know, man.

It's speed running is kind of like, I don't know.

It's kind of like weird for me because I know that like.

You can play a game fast, but like, there's a lot of stuff that makes

you wonder how they even find it.

Like, there's a lot of like, exploits that just warp you to the credits, and that's

quote unquote counts as beating the game.

I mean, like, it kind of seems a little ridiculous, to be honest.

I saw an Earthbound speedrun that was kind of like that.

I've seen some Earthbound speedruns, uh, the entire map,

like, all levels and everything in Earthbound is just part of one map.

And so, like, if you go up to, like, uh, like, the top right corner of, like,

Onett, and you, like, just wiggle your way through one of the cliff sides, you

can go up and, like, walk through the entire map and find your way to, like,

Giygas or something, and just, it's wild.

How would they even fight

Giygas at that point, though?

They're, like, level, like, one, right?

Well, really

low level.

Yeah.

I don't know if they actually fight guy.

I guess I think that they can like do some other exploits to

actually get to the end credits.

I think it's fun that they find ways to do this.

It's just, it extends the life of the game.

Cause you're just like, Oh yeah, I did not realize you could do all this weird stuff.

I mean, I would never play it that way because it takes a lot of work, but

like the bunny hopping in half life, like I'll go back to that all the time.

Like they can jump over the whole fricking map.

It's Was it like backwards, like jumping backwards doesn't have, like has

infinite acceleration, is that correct?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And there's like air control stuff too, right, where you can, if you, when you're

not, when there's no friction of the player moving against the ground, and

you're strafing left and right, and moving the camera in a certain way, you can just

gain incredible speed going forwards too.

Isn't that the whole like basis of surfing maps in CS?

Yeah,

yep It's it's wild.

I just watched a video recently.

This is totally tangential but uh about like the the um, the legacy of Uh id tech

2 right like the quake engine and how and like where that that ended up becoming

um Source, but it also ended up becoming like all kinds of other like there's

still code from id tech 2 being used in or maybe in tech 3 but one of them still

being used today in games like call of duty and and in uh, like the the light

uh flashing pattern in um half life alex is the same as in the original half life

because it's all based on it's so wild dude it's so I'll drop a link

to that in the in the show notes

That's cool.

Yeah.

There's a lot of legacy stuff that we don't realize, like Windows is all

like that too, where there's a lot of legacy stuff that we don't think about.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I mean, I think you'll have to tell us more about, uh,

what, what this next topic is.

Oh, this is one that I, I don't know if you guys saw anything on this, but the

last of us, they have like an experience room or something like that at CES.

Um, And I, I think it was, yeah, it was at C C S.

And I don't know how they're going to go about doing this.

Cause when I first heard about it, I thought this was going to

be like a, you get some, you could buy a home, but I think that's

just going to be, I don't know.

So essentially what I'm talking about is that they have a room where

you can go and experience in like a three dimensional, 3d dimensional

kind of like way, Um, the last of us.

So you, they have a very specific situation, um, where you have like

a gun, they get a hold and I think like a light and they have props and

stuff that you can pick stuff up, um, in this room and in this environment.

And then on top of it, they add in, um, like haptic feedback into like, I

think the suit, it's, it's been a little bit since like a couple of days, sound

effects, and then they even have sense.

To enhance the immersion, which I'm just like, I don't know if I want a clicker.

To, uh, I don't want to hear a click.

I already smell a clicker.

I don't want to smell these, but I'm not going to lie.

That would be very intense, especially in VR.

I don't even think this is VR.

I think this is like the rooms lit up and, uh, the whole, like they have

screens, I think on the, on the room.

I, I, I, I'd have to look at this, but the main reason I'm pointing

this out Yeah, this is right here.

The environment was created using large screens and led panels.

The re the biggest reason I'm pointing this out is that, um, that

scent thing just really got to me.

The PlayStation five scent thing.

Smell a vision.

Smell of, I don't, it's not PlayStation five.

Is that, that's, that's all you can get it for the PC, but there is a smell of

vision kind of thing that you can get, but it doesn't, I make, how would you make

Uh, how'd you make some of these smells?

It's, it's an interesting kind of step forward that I think is gonna be fun.

But, I don't know.

I think it'd be more fun as, like, an experienced room.

As opposed to, like, in my office, or Prepared to never see

any sewer levels in video games ever again.

Oh my god.

It'd be cool Imagine how like having one of these like rooms in your house

and having to reload the fart juice

Sorry The thing so you know how like escape rooms are a thing yeah,

yeah I'm I'm hoping that this is honestly this kind of makes me think

of like The earliest stages of, um, the holodeck in Star Trek, right?

Yeah.

Where, it, honestly, it would be fun to go to a place and kind of experience

something from a game that I love.

And so I'm here for this type of thing.

Uh, escape rooms are fun, but I think I'd have a lot more fun in this.

Yeah.

I mean, this seems, this, this seems super neat.

Like you were saying, it gave me, uh, the thoughts of, uh,

like a holodeck, you know?

Um.

Yeah.

I'm curious.

I would be interested in trying it out, even though The Last of Us, that

body horror stuff, I just can't, I can't deal with it, like, Um, but I

would still want to try it, you know?

Dude, imagine doing like, imagine having like, Smell O Vision and

Alex, dude, I would love that.

Would you though?

Deal with Jeff.

I would, I, if dude, if there was, if there, if you could get like a little,

uh, like, Scent projector for your VR headset, and you could play Half Life Alyx

with like, sense, like, smell immersion.

Because I, I, you, we always forget.

We always, like, forget about how important smells are for forming memories.

Uh, and, and if, dude, if you walked into, like, um, the, the, the implant, um, um,

Uh, the implanted, uh, what's his name?

You know what I'm talking about.

Yeah, uh.

If you

walked into his den, right?

Yeah.

And, and it's, it had like this, kind of, like, earthy smell, like, on the outside,

or kind of like stagnant water, and, and it just gave you this, like, sense of

like, Oh, shit, something smells weird.

But then you meet him, and then he had a distinct smell.

Like, dude, I would be totally down for that.

Yeah.

I, I, I would be too.

Like, if, if I can experience Half Life even more, I'm down for it.

Even if it's disgusting.

Yeah.

I'm down for it.

Like, there's sewer levels and

that.

Yeah, I know.

Walking through the sewers where there's all those body bags and shit.

Like, oh my god.

I'd be there for it.

I'd, I would totally play that.

I just don't, I see, I'd want to go to a place to do that.

Or have it be like a, like a Neuralink or like some type of VR headset

that, like, can Interface with you to a way that it can simulate scent.

I

definitely wouldn't want that in my house.

I don't think, yeah,

I don't know.

I don't know about the scent like thing to be honest, but like, imagine if you had

like a, like they mentioned a suit, right?

Where you could like feel things.

Right.

Imagine

if you had that, but then like, imagine if you had to play like a medieval

game where you're like a knight and then like your arm gets cut off,

that would be, that would be intense.

Hmm.

Yeah.

And they've had haptic feedback, like suits for a little bit, but

they're not greatly supported.

So this is, this is another thing.

Like this is a Sony thing.

So they're kind of innovating.

I think it'd be cool.

I don't know where they're going to go with this, but it's cool.

It's a proof of concept demo.

Of course, you never, you know, things never go wrong.

A lot of things don't come from proof of concepts.

Uh, but it'd be really cool to see.

Yeah, the whole haptic

suit thing kind of reminds me of, uh, a van Gelian.

You guys, you guys ever see a gelian?

So, uh, one of the main like things with the meccas there is that you have

to synchronize what the mecca, which means you essentially feel what the

MEC feels because, um, the MEC itself is like a bio mecca to be honest.

Hmm.

So essentially you, like, if you're a hundred percent synchronized,

do you feel what the MEC feels.

So, like, if the mech's arm gets ripped off, you feel, like, that

being, you feel that sensation.

And, like, some, some of the pilots in that show die because of that.

Cause, like, you know, shock.

And I think it's, yeah, it's intense.

And, like, I think one of the movies, uh, one of the girls, Asuka, gets,

is like 300 percent synchronized with the Ava, with, like, her Ava.

Uh.

And then, like, a spear, like, goes through her hand, and it

splits, like, the hand in half.

It's really gory, but, like, it splits her hand in half,

too, with her arm in half, too.

It's insane.

You're not selling me on this experience.

I don't know if I want to have to play that game.

True.

No.

It's, it'll be interesting to see where we innovate away from, like, I think

graphics cards, like we talked about earlier, where, like, They're gonna,

they're finding, they're trying to find ways, obviously you can tell, like,

they're limiting certain things to be able to release new hardware every few years.

And, DLSS is, I think, is just one way of answering, like, we don't

have an answer for you quite yet.

We, it's super expensive to increase the core counts and all that.

But, I, I think, yeah, it, it, this is just another way is, oh, I can

play this in a very different way.

way, a game in a very different way and being innovative is I'm here for it.

It has not done very well in the past.

And VR is still one that like a lot of people don't care for, but I'm hoping

that this continues to be the case that we keep on seeing a new innovations

because I just don't want it to be stagnant for the rest of our lives.

That'd be, that'd suck.

Yeah.

I think there's one thing that X Box could T could do.

And that's implement gyro on the controllers because like a lot of games

don't have gyro because like xbox the xbox controller at this point is like the

lowest common denominator and there's and it just doesn't have gyro functionality

and like a lot of fps's would benefit from that but they don't because like

you

know like imagine if they made a new xbox controller with gyro and they

implemented that as part of like x input And then all of a sudden

games got official gyro support on pc now like wouldn't that be awesome

Yeah, yeah.

No, it'd be great

Um, there's a there's a video about that actually, uh about like how the uh Uh, oh

my god the xbox controller is like holding back controllers in general, uh, it's

by narrow have you guys heard of narrow

I can't say I have, no.

Aw man, you're in for some good stuff, man.

Uh, Nero has, uh, he's got a couple million followers.

Or a couple This one video is about the Steam Controller and how Gyro Controls

on the Steam Controller is amazing.

And how, uh, Xbox is holding it all back because And how Nintendo did

a disservice to Gyro Controls with the Wii U and their waggle bullshit.

Um, but yeah, it's a really, really great video.

Um, and he talks about emulation and stuff too, but I'll put that in the show notes.

And that'll be on the, uh On the, on the podcast, as well.