Valve's Gamble: Scandals and Innovations | OTC EP10

Welcome off the console of the hottest new podcast that's all about gaming tech

news and anything nerdy this week we're covering the biggest news items including

uh insert news item here no uh we're covering valves lives deceptions and

assumptions made by uh coffeezilla and uh we're also going to be covering a couple

other cool topics including the ineo 3s modular design Plus, more of course.

Uh, I'm James, uh, also The Brink, and I'm joined with, uh, by my

co hosts, or co host, Hi Tech, and, uh, in spirit, Gardner.

He was not able to make it here today because he has, uh, the COVID,

and, uh, he's not feeling well.

Yeah, he's not feeling well at all.

So yeah, we're gonna let him off.

We're gonna let him.

Yeah, what?

Yeah, he said he's bedridden too.

It's crazy, man.

Just because of that, we'll let him off this week.

But, next week, no, uh, of course we want him to be here, and, uh, he should

be all well and rested for next week's first episode of the year, so he will

be missing the last episode of the year.

And our tenth episode as well.

Well, this is our tenth episode, I mean.

Yeah, this is our 10th episode, which it's, it's awesome that we've gotten here.

I mean, it feels like we started this not that long ago, so, um, yeah.

Thanks for being here with me today, uh, Hitech.

Let's start off with what we've been, what we've been playing.

What have you been playing, Hitech?

Okay, so I've been looking to get into, I've been looking to get into

a game called Meeside, which is like Another Yandari simulator sort of thing.

I think we talked about a few of those on the, uh, on the podcast.

Didn't we?

Yeah, I can't, I can't remember if we talked about this one.

Not this one, I don't think so.

Okay, this is one I've picked up and I plan on streaming in the next few days.

Oh yeah, it looks like a lot of fun.

I'm gonna pick it up, probably towards the latter the tail end of the sales.

But, uh, I've also been grinding out on Marvel Rivals.

I made it to Gold rank because I just don't have a lot of time

to play video games these days.

I've been trying to make videos.

Trying to look into what's coming out next month, all that good stuff.

And, uh, I've also got a bit of the sniffles right now, too.

Um, I'm sure you can probably hear it right now.

My nose is all stuffed up.

I'm not, it's not like, it's not a Gardener where I'm bedridden.

But, uh, like, yeah.

I've got the sniffles.

And, uh, Gardener himself has said that he's been playing Dangeresque,

the Rumisode Triangulate, which is based, which is, uh, in

the Homestar Runner universe.

If you guys remember that.

Yeah, we talked about that towards the end of last episode.

Yeah.

Gardner can do a really good, strong, bad impression.

Crazy good.

I was shocked by that.

He could have been the new voice actor.

He could be.

Yeah, he should.

Oh my God, that'd be so funny.

He should do it for his own videos.

He, he really should.

Uh, hopefully they don't even go after him, but they're pretty

cool curator, so, um, yeah.

That's a game that I need to look into.

I just, I'm so overwhelmed by so many different games.

I have been playing, um, Stalker 2 and Indiana Jones this week.

Um, have a little bit more free time this week.

Um, I was able to make a video this week.

It's been a good week.

Um, Stalker 2 is fun.

It's, feels more like it's on rails than Stalker, er, yeah, Stalker 1.

felt more open world and less on rails.

This one feels much more on rails than S.

T.

A.

L.

K.

E.

R.

1 did, which is a little disappointing, but everything else is fun.

Uh, we'll see if I end up finishing it.

Um, I'm sure I'll finish it at one point, but it's definitely not got

my, caught my interest as much as Indiana Jones, which plays, it's

first person shooter, or at least, you know, well, it's a first person.

I don't know if there's any shooting going on.

I haven't gotten that far, but, It, it plays so well, and it's fun to play in,

uh, at least at the beginning you get a play in a portion of one of the movies,

I won't ruin it, you guys can play it, but it is, It's very exciting, and it's

very fun, and the graphics are good.

Um, Troy Baker does a great job impersonating Indiana Jones voice.

Love it.

Yeah, I mean, we saw at the Game Awards, all of them were there.

We had Harrison Ford, we also had Troy Baker and Todd Howard, and Todd Howard

was, uh, was the shortest one there, which I thought was kind of funny.

I thought he'd be a lot taller.

I don't know why.

No, well, Troy Baker and Harrison Ford are tall.

So.

That is true, that is true.

I, I, I don't, I can't even remember how tall, uh, Todd Howard,

or uh, yeah, Todd Howard is.

But, the other two are well above six foot.

Damn.

Damn, I wanna be above, I wanna be above six foot.

That'd be cool.

Uh, I do too, but if you get too tall, then it comes with

other issues, heart related, so.

I guess I'll be fine with my 5 foot 10 self.

Damn.

Well that's okay then.

Let's see, I guess I have to ask Gardener how tall he is too.

I know, now we have to That would be hilarious.

It is just asking because we see so many people online, but like, until you see

them in person, you really don't know.

And there's been a few where you're just like, you're much taller

than I would have ever expected.

One of them, Markiplier is like 5'10 I think 5'11 he's around

5'10 And his friends are like 6'5 or something like that.

Yeah.

That one's crazy because they do a podcast, um, Distractables.

And so they'll do a With a video and once, once, once they were together,

it was, that was, that was the shocking thing was seeing them all together

and how much shorter Mark Plyer is.

It makes him look like he's five, or he's like, yeah, five foot four or something.

Man, that's mean.

It is, it is quite mean because I was like, wait a second, I

don't think he's that short.

Yeah, so,

well, I'm glad if we're, none of us are, I don't, I doubt Gardner is six foot.

Yeah.

He's gotta be around.

Dude, wait till Gardner shows up and he's like seven foot.

That'd be awesome.

Dude, then my, my, oh my gosh.

I, cause I, I can see him on camera.

My, my perception of like all the objects in this room would

be drastically different.

Cause they all seem normal sized compared to someone that would be 6 foot 5.

Oh yeah, for sure, for sure.

Alright, so, yeah.

So, speaking of deceptions of you know, size compared to objects in your room.

Uh, Valve might be doing a little bit of deception themselves.

A little bit of lying, a little bit of uh, Ruining childhoods

of pasts, let's just say that.

Um, this has been a controversy that they've been wrapped in for a

decade plus from my understanding.

Yeah.

So Val has a lot of, um, explaining to do, and at the end of the day, they

hopefully will resolve this because this is a big topic for me is gambling and

it's because it is a very predatory.

Um, thing, and I don't, I already don't like predatory practices by, uh, companies

and stuff, but this is like, gambling really hits, um, the dopamine and, like,

the, uh, addictive, uh, personalities of people to an extreme degree where they

lose money, their lives, everything.

It is, um, and I think Valve has, you know, More to do in this space, but

let's, let's talk about this high tech.

You watch the video.

You're the one that recommended this actually.

What, um, do you, uh, what do you think of this?

So, I think it's disappointing that this has basically overshadowed

everything, you know, with CS related.

Because, I mean, I think, at the core, CS is a fairly, sometimes, I

mean, most of the time, balanced game.

It's basically like the practice, it's like the perfect,

like, esports, so to speak.

It's easy to watch, it's fun to play, and, uh, it's easy to understand,

too, in case you're someone that, you know, doesn't play CS.

Like, I mean, you kind of understand like you shoot PPPP, you die.

It's not, it's not Overwatch, I can tell you that much.

But what I can tell you is that, uh, the skin market in CS is insane

for those, I don't know, skin.

Some skins can be like really valuable, especially the knife skins.

Those can go for like hundreds of thousands of dollars if you,

uh, actually pull one and I mean.

It sounds cool, like, don't get me wrong, if I get a CS knife, the first thing I'd

probably do is sell it for real money, and then get that sweet sweet cash, but like,

at the same time though, it's terrible that, like, so much, like, gambling and,

uh, predatory behavior is hinged on the fact that Valve lets you trade items,

like, cause, every other live service game, like, let's look at Valorant, you

can't trade skins in Valorant, can you?

Or most other games, too.

Hell, Rocket League used to have trading via Steam until Epic bought

them and then just turned off trading altogether, if you remember.

AK just ripped it from Steam Store.

Yes.

Unless you own Steam, unless you own the copy already, you can't play it on Steam.

And they disabled trading on the Steam copies as well, which is, uh, which

is something that's worth mentioning.

Um, and it makes me wonder if, uh, cause I remember back in the day when

live service games got released, I was kind of, I would always be kind

of upset that, you know, none of these other games let you trade stuff.

But now I realize that maybe that was probably for, probably a good thing.

Because, like, imagine the shit shit that would happen if, like,

you could trade in EA, like, sports.

FIFA.

Yeah, I, here's my real honest take on this.

I, trading has been a thing forever.

Uh, Diablo 2, I believe, had it.

Um, they had auctions, they had trading.

I have no problems with trading.

That is on people to, um, kind of corrupt it, right?

So, being able to trade, um, skins in, whatever, you pay money.

You trade skin in for uh, four points or whatever and get more like i'm

okay with that like valve doesn't have Like it's not really gambling

trading is not gambling What happens though is that people then want it?

Like the really prestigious, uh skin right and then they go to a third party site And

then that's where they can buy those and then exchange it Valve has shut some down.

They've sent You Letters out to close some down.

There's some and this is where my this is my problem with CoffeeZilla And I

will get down to my problem ultimately CoffeeZilla's whole thing going on is

that he has to have big Topics and he's has to keep on getting bigger topics or

at least try to so he he might not say this But he even has skin in the game

on this topic He needs to make it sound like it's worse than it really is Well,

I already, because it's Valve, I already, like, it already hurts me to talk about

this, but this video was also a little bit hard to watch because it, he, he, he

did a lot of assuming and stuff like that.

He's like, I've talked to people, yeah, they don't have, they don't, they have

something else that they need, that they're going to get from this, but

no one here, he even mentions it like that, but still at the end of the day.

He says Valve has all this money.

They could shut anything down.

Look at all the other stuff they've done.

Well, if we're going to point out a case, like Pirate Bay is still a thing.

Um, that has not been, that's been shut down almost multiple

times, but it has roaming servers.

It has servers that are able to go to certain countries and stuff like that.

They have IP masking and all sorts of different tactics that get away from

being closed down, including peer to peer.

So I don't think it's fair to say that it's as easy as that for it

would be easy for valve to close every single one of these down.

What needs to happen is more regulations from government.

In my opinion, like I want companies to be able to regulate themselves at

times, but the companies will never be 100 percent and you can never

rely on companies being for everyone.

So that's just, that's, uh, I guess all around it.

My take on this is that valve does have some ownership on this.

The trading is not really that bad.

It's people take advantage of it.

People cause issues, um, to then warn it to be bad, but I do say some of

the elements they need to get rid of probably in Counter Strike Go

that are in Counter Strike that is, but Counter Strike Go, I think had.

Was slot machines or something like that.

That's pretty messed up.

I don't like that.

I think they could get rid of that.

Right?

Um.

Yeah, so the way you open up a case is that it pulls up a revolving, like,

window of cases and like, Oh, you get this really crappy skin, but you were

just this close to getting the knife.

Like, you know what I'm saying, right?

Like, there's a visual.

And the visual is completely unnecessary because it's not

like Physics based or anything.

It's not like a roulette table, right?

Is it is it a roulette?

What is it again?

I've opened up.

Here's the thing I've opened up cases in csgo and I've it didn't

seem like anything like gambling to me When I did it a couple years ago,

but I haven't done it for years.

It's like Like, think of Wheel of Fortune.

Like, you've seen that show, right?

Wheel of Fortune, the game show?

Think of, like, the wheel rotating, and then it lands on a specific spot.

And, oh, you were in, like, yeah, you were this close to getting a million dollars.

But you got, like, five hundred dollars instead.

Think of it like that, almost.

Like, the concept.

The idea.

And I think that whole visual is manifestly unnecessary, because it's

not, like, a physics based, like, No, but Yeah, it's got a random generated system.

I don't think it's unnecessary.

It's like, Overwatch has this.

And I think some countries, they actually outlawed the

animation to make it like really

exuberant, like super fun and everything to open up a pack.

I'm fine with that.

My problem lies within Though is what is what are the drop rates?

Are you going to be selling this to to miners?

I think that's where it needs to be is maybe remove it from miners altogether

and they just get free Packs that don't have the animation every once

in a while My, my, I don't necessarily want to take away the animations.

I think they're fun, but I do think regulation needs to be in play with them.

I

mean, I don't know, man.

Well, like, even with Overwatch, like, one's loot box animations,

like, yeah, it's exuberant, it's exciting, but it doesn't pretend,

like, there's a roulette table of, like, loot that you could have gotten.

It just kind of opens up and you get four items.

And it's all exciting stuff.

Like, you know what I'm saying, right?

And yeah, it's a good guess.

Yeah, and you did, you did mention the uh, Pirate Bay.

It's an interesting point that you mentioned, that yeah, a lot of like,

a lot of much bigger companies and corporations have tried to take them down.

But I think, I think that case is a little different because like,

none of the material is actually hosted on Pirate Bay's own servers.

All they really host are the Torrent files.

Because yeah.

That's.

Still, if you got, it can always almost be rebuilt because the torrent

files are distributed everywhere.

I get that.

Blockchain could be similar.

If they wanted to do these, uh, things with blockchain that could

be distributed in multiple places, blockchain is very similar.

I don't know if any of these gambling sets use the blockchain now, but

what I'm saying is Valve could, but saying that Valve could shut down a

company somewhere else is asinine and very naive of someone to think that.

Like, it's not easy saying Valve could shut down a company, let's say in

Russia right now, especially, right?

Um, And a lot of stuff could be in Russia.

I wouldn't be surprised.

Counter Strike is massive in Russia.

Massive.

Um, I wouldn't be surprised if it's one of the biggest players

of the game is Counter Strike.

But, and so, and if they host stuff over there, Up until more recently,

and it's probably, well okay, Up until when I lived there, they had,

you could go buy, From a store, uh, pirated games and stuff like that.

They were cracking down on that more and more, but with everything

that's happened the past few years, I bet you that's opened up again.

And I, I only point that out because I bet you some of these

gambling sites are over there.

I mean, it makes sense.

I wouldn't, I, I, I wouldn't look past that for sure, yeah.

I mean, it's a, I don't want to say it's a piracy or illegal activity safe

haven, but I mean, it might just be.

What, so here's, yeah, exactly.

Well, here, here's my thing.

I'm not trying to fully defend Valve.

Um, I think this is a much more complicated topic

than Coffeezilla brings up.

I do think that Valve could do some IP tracking of the accounts

that are making trades and how often they're making trades.

Um, and they could probably do some algorithmic work

there and probably ban stuff.

And I think they should.

That's where they, they're failing at.

The problem with Valve is.

They're a very small company.

That's another thing CoffeeZilla doesn't take into account.

They're a very small company They have priorities and when

they're excited about stuff, they don't they Neglect other areas.

Now, that's not a good thing.

Valve needs to figure that shit out because that's really bad, but It's just

kind of their mantras how they kind of work and case in point is I'm treating

this like a case Like I'm not a stupid Lawyer, I'm not a lawyer or anything.

I'm just freaking.

I don't know why I'm thinking like this, but

Team Fortress 2 had has and had a major bot issue.

They did not resolve it for Years, and they have trading going on in that too

There's a lot of reasons why the bots were there is because they were trade

there were probably some gambling going on So because it's so they've used bots

to farm Items and stuff and they'd sell them on markets I think they squashed

it there, but I'm not 100 percent sure.

But they squashed a lot of the bots and they opened up the game

to the public, which is good.

Meaning, um, I believe updates or at least servers can be run by the public more now.

Valve has a lot of issues.

They have a lot of growth issues.

They have a lot of IPs.

They do not grow very fast.

They either need to hire some outside firms to handle all this stuff.

And do, if they don't want to grow too big for, Um, who they are, they're gonna

have to find a way to resolve this.

I don't think, my, and, not to just commandeer the whole topic and talk the

whole time, but there's like, Daddy, Daddy, um, Oh my gosh, what's his face?

Um, Gabe, Daddy, Gabe, Even coffee still calls him that, Could, Do

more than just buy super yachts.

He has how many super yachts now, like six.

So, wow.

I want to see that.

Well, he's got a regular yacht.

I think he's got two, he owns two yachts and then he has like, he probably has

five yachts, super yachts, whatever, but he has like three in the making.

One of them is a medical one.

If I'm sorry.

Uh, what I learned about that is like, okay, Gabe, I love you and all, but.

Yeah.

A fuck off.

Go sell those.

At least you can have one.

I'm down for you to have one.

But use that money to actually take care of these problems.

Um, at least do something.

That's where I'm kind of pissed off at.

Yeah.

So Gardner, um, uh, put in a note.

Yeah.

He's not here with us, but Gardner contributes some notes.

He says that he hasn't seen the video, but one of the things that annoys him

about Valve is the gambling because, you know, in many ways Valve is pro

consumer and in many other ways, you know, valve isn't because, you know Yeah.

Especially with gambling in the games.

And I'm gonna add to, I'm gonna add to his point that, uh, valve did

kind of innovate in many regards to.

Monetization in video games like I mean they came I mean I don't think they came

up with the concept of loot box that was imported over from the east But they

did come up with the battle pass And it was called the Battle Pass of Dota.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah, Fortnite didn't come up with that.

As much as Epic would like you to think it did.

I'm, I'll be honest.

I'm okay with Battle Passes.

I'm okay with loot boxes.

I think they need to be regulated.

I think we're, um, we need to be more mad at our, uh, governmental officials.

Uh, Europe at least does some of those.

They do some, um, Europe and Australia have some regulations

on those stuff, I believe.

We don't.

And it needs to happen more and more, especially since gambling

is very predatory for young.

Um, yeah, young men, but also just young people is especially when you're in your.

If you honestly, gambling should probably be banned until you're 2425 until your

brains fully developed, because, um.

It is very, very damaging to brains of that.

Um, period, because the dopamine hit and all that it gets very addicting.

Um, but.

I would like to see more action done on streamers.

Probably more than Valve itself.

Like, streamers are big into gambling.

I don't know if they do, uh, this type of gambling.

But if they do, that might be a big one to hit.

And, uh, there's other entities that are just drastically worse

at gambling in the gaming world.

Bye.

Valve definitely needs to save face on this.

Well, I think, yeah, I do think Twitch should take action if they haven't

already, but even then, They have.

But even then, they'll just go to Kik, and Kik is apparently gambler

friendly, which is a problem.

Kik is owned by one of the biggest online casinos.

They are owned by, they created, Kik was created so that there

would be a platform in case Twitch completely abandoned, which I believe

Twitch has abandoned most gambling.

Um, Kik gives, and these casinos give these streamers money to throw so

they're not wasting their own money.

And they even give them extra money because they're

promoting their, their products.

It's, it's crazy.

If you want to talk like this could be a whole talk like whole podcast

episode a whole topic Do you want to talk about predatory things like?

And this is maybe this is why this is warped my mind on this Valve's

the least of my worries with the tech with this type of stuff.

Um, don't get me wrong.

It's bad But it is third party stuff doing it.

It's not valve directly.

We need to go after the third party.

We need to have agencies to actually handle this thing properly, but we

have Major issues with twitch streamers Are, uh, well, kind of Twitch, but I

think, like I said, I think they banned it, I don't think they've re allowed

it, but Kik's streamers, um, promoting gambling, and it's really, really bad.

Yeah, especially since, especially since anyone on, you can go

on Kik without an account.

You don't even have to claim, you don't even have to lie about being 18

you can just go in there and, like, watch people gamble and all that stuff.

You know, the only gamble I approve of is Bellatro, and that's not really gambling.

Here's my thing.

You can't ban gambling altogether.

You can localize it, like they've done with Vegas and some other places.

I think it was actually smart concepts.

Because people are going to do it.

If you ban it, people are going to do it.

Especially with something like that, where it's on face value,

or like, on its face, benign.

It only becomes a real issue if you, um, play into people's addictive minds.

Um, personalities, or you let it get out of control, which these companies

are in the game to make as much money as they can, so, albeit it is regulated,

it's not regulated enough, so, uh.

So, Valve, so, Coffee, one of CoffeeZilla's main claims is that

Valve themselves use loopholes that a lot of casinos use.

Thoughts on that?

I don't even remember what those loopholes were, um, because here's the thing.

They don't, they don't own any of the casinos.

They own the gambling directly.

They have everything that has to do with the gambling, anything that has to do with

money exchange, anything that's like that.

That's the casino.

Valve does not do any gambling.

They don't handle any of the money per se.

They don't have any money put into this.

You have to trade items, get points to buy items on the market, all that.

Like, you know, They don't inherently do the same thing.

This is my problem with this, this whole topic kind of with the valve thing, but

they are complacent with the 3rd parties.

But that's still not fair to put all the blame on valve.

It is those 3rd parties that are at fault.

And also, um, government agencies are supposed to be handling this type of

thing, and they need to be handling, um.

If there's an outside force, like in a different country, coming in and affecting

our, uh, youth or anyone with these things that are deemed illegal, they

need to be handling it and they're not.

So this is, uh, Valve needs to work on it, the government needs to work on

it, uh, but that's my thoughts on that.

I don't know if the loophole is void though.

Well, I think what CoffeeZilla said was that the loophole was that you

technically, Don't you can't technically can't cash out for real money when

traded via steam in the market itself You only get steep like you only get

steam credit, which I mean, it's true But at the state and yeah valve does get

a portion of the proceeds if you do it through steep like The steam marketplace

like they take a certain percentage off like I don't know like five or ten

percent But that's besides the point I mean, like, there's a very clear, like,

a lot of these people would probably just do it outside of Steam anyways.

Like, they don't trade Steam credits.

You know, like, if you and I were to, say, trade, like, if I give you a

knife and you give me 100, 000, you'd probably send it over via PayPal.

And Valve gets precisely none of that, correct?

Correct, but 5 percent is not too bad, because there's credit card

processing fees, typically, and all that, if that does happen.

There's big transaction fees.

There's a lot of other stuff that goes into that.

But yeah, five percent still is I mean, yeah It doesn't look good on them.

I agree Uh, if they want to do one thing is would be potentially get rid of that

would probably be a good start And I mean, yeah, you can't even take you

can't even take that much like If you traded via Steam, using Steam credits,

you can't even take that outside.

The most you could do with that money is buy a bunch of Steam games, and

maybe a couple of Steam decks, too.

And, I don't know, if the Steam machines ever come back,

maybe you can buy those, too.

I've seen a lot of people sell all their CSGO stuff for a Steam deck.

I know, that is crazy.

I have seen that, too.

That is crazy.

Um, heck, I mean, I've done some trades.

And then just for fun, and I, I, I, yeah, I was able to buy, I think I

just ended up with extra points, I was able to buy something stupid.

I don't remember, but all I know is, I agree with, I agree with this, like this

loophole kind of, it needs to be closed.

Um, casinos use it, but I think they use it in a little bit different of

a way, um, where with Valve, it's, Yeah, cause like with other, like, life

service games, you can't even trade.

The most you can do to trade is, I guess, trading different accounts.

And, they'll ban you if, and they'll ban you if you, if they

catch you trading accounts.

Like, EA will, like, I don't like giving props to EA for anything.

But like, EA will probably ban you if they catch you trading

accounts with like, EAFC, right?

What, so, what's wrong with trading, is my question, like No, I don't

have anything, I don't have anything wrong with I don't have any issues

with trading in and of itself.

I like trading.

I like trading in like, MMOs.

That's part of the reason why MMOs are cool.

I hate the fact that Destiny 2 doesn't have trading.

It really pisses me off.

But, but like, I don't know.

I don't know, man.

It's a complicated, it's a complicated situation.

I can't even begin to grasp the depths of it.

They definitely need to, like, verification steps and stuff like that.

Like, I'm still down for doing the, if you want to trade, you

need to have some type of ID.

And that would help maybe even get rid of some of the, because I don't

even know if we should allow people that can't drive to be trading.

Like, that might be a good thought to get.

Like, you have to have a driver's license or a state ID.

to be able to trade.

I'm all for that.

I know there's a lot of libertarians that don't like that type of thing.

I, I'm sorry, but at the end of the day, this is software.

This is like online.

I, I mean, hell real casino is you need to pull out an ID too,

unless, you know, you, unless you pass off for like, being above 20.

Have

I been carded before?

I don't know.

I don't gamble really.

I just go to those places to take advantage of everything

else besides gambling.

Um, Other free booze?

No.

No, they have a lot of other like Vegas.

I grew up near Vegas.

So I'd go to like the M& M store.

I'd go to like shows or like they have like concerts.

They'll have everything else.

I don't like like the place I had to avoid the most is the casinos.

I just don't like it.

It's a waste of my Ike.

I just see it as a waste of time, but the margaritas are pretty good.

Like, they have margarita stations, of course, so you can

walk around with a margarita, but, uh, like a tall ass margarita.

But, um,

yeah, I,

I just, I, I think this could be better regulated and I think we, uh,

it really shows our geriatric kind of, uh, um, lawmakers how they really

don't understand how this all works.

So we need more youth in there.

As far as what Valve could do is that they could just implement an ID

system and at least start from there.

That would help probably squash a lot of third parties.

I do think that Valve does benefit from those third parties,

which also makes them look bad.

They don't need the money.

Valve doesn't need the money.

And that's why I point out Gabe Newell has a bunch of super yachts.

That makes you look even worse.

So it's already tainted his image by doing that type of stuff.

I don't like it.

It's unfettered, um, consumption, and it just doesn't look good.

Um

As far as anything else on this topic, are you, like, anything else you want to say?

Um, not particularly, but I will say that, uh, gambling is bad.

And Japan also has a loop, a similar loophole with their

gambling, because technically, gambling is outlawed in Japan.

But you know what they do with pachinko parlors?

Instead of giving you money, they give you something that's meant to be sold.

To a different store that in turn gives you money for that and

that's how they get away with it.

Yeah, that is, there's going to be loopholes.

You're always going to find loopholes.

You're going to always have people doing it like, um,

speakeasy kind of style stuff.

Like, it's just going to happen.

You're going to have to let it happen on the smaller levels.

You just need to make sure that you regulate the bigger problematic areas

that just been popping up and we have not been handling that very well.

Yeah.

Um, well, Japan does have that issue and they do have some

major issues surrounding that.

Some other things I'd still don't think it's as bad as this where

it directly affects the youth.

Um, and the earlier you get into a gambling addiction,

the worse it is for you.

It is.

Rewires the brain.

It is just as bad as if they were, you know, doing anything else

that was brain, um, altering.

So I am definitely, I'm not fully against gambling, but I

myself do not like gambling.

I don't think it's worthwhile.

If they wouldn't away, I'd be happy.

But I'm definitely against it being promoted in any way or

being accessible by any way.

By anyone that's under a certain age.

100%.

Well said.

Um, what I'm totally for, though, is the Star Fox 64 port.

If it's true.

What is going on with Star Fox 64?

It's a fun game.

What's going on with this port?

So, do you remember the Ship of Harkinian, the Ocarina of Time port for PC?

Those guys made a Star Fox 64 port for PC.

And Gardner said he's played it on his, uh, he's played it for his last video.

And that it works great, it's awesome, it's very neat, all of that stuff.

I haven't played Star Fox 64 in a very long time.

Uh, but all I remember is that, uh, If you want to get into the hard mode route,

you have to save Falco in the first mission, because A hundred percent of the

time he will die, or at least get, uh, get, uh, destroyed in the first mission.

I don't know, but, uh.

That's barrel roll.

That's But, uh.

That's barrel rubber.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But essentially, uh, it's a PC PortalStar 564.

It runs at 60 FPS.

I think it actually runs higher, um, depending on if you have

a higher refresh rate monitor.

I'm not entirely sure, but, yeah.

Um, it runs at 60 is what you said?

Mm hmm.

I'm sorry, what'd you say?

What'd you say it runs at?

I think it runs at 60 FPS, because the N64 version definitely didn't run at 60.

Not that I remember.

No, it didn't, but, uh, back then, I can't remember what system does

this, but they, uh, base their FPS on their CPU cycle, so if you, like,

If you don't, um, limit it to, like, 34 or 60 or something like that, you're going

to end up making the game go a lot faster.

Um, I can't remember if N64 does this, though.

So, I'm assuming since it's a port though, they can control that

though, and they'll emulate the CPU.

Um, a lot of stupid decisions were made with, concerning games

and, and hardware back then.

Um, I've played the Mario 64 port for the PC, that thing is awesome.

Haven't played Ocarina of Time port, but, uh, Star Fox 64 actually

really sounds interesting to me.

Yeah, so for those who don't know, you do need your own copy of Star Fox

64, or at the very least your own ROM.

It's USA Revision 1.

1, uh, Revision A.

I know a lot of people don't know about this, but Even back then, they had

updated releases of games on cartridges.

Some cartridges are different from others, and, uh, and not just regions,

too, you know, some revisions, they fix bugs and all that stuff, so

you gotta make sure you get a, uh, a copy of StarFlight 64 that's 1.

1 Revision A, and then you need to convert that to Z64, and then

you need to essentially, not quite build the game, because the build

process is kind of automated with the way they have it set up, but, uh,

I love these types of things, uh, these types of projects because this is really

good for game preservation, right?

And so I'd love to see this happen more often.

And I'd love to see game companies starting getting into the game of

actually wanting to preserve stuff.

So I love this.

Yeah, I mean, we're, we're seeing a lot of it happen.

I mean, we're starting to see, I mean, I think they have a, uh, Jak and Daxter

port that's available on PC as well.

Like they Essentially reverse engineered it as well.

Same, same, I don't want to say exact same process, but like a

very similar process I would say.

Interesting.

I'll have to dig into that, um, I'll have to dig into the source code and

see how long they actually do that.

Because I'll probably have to have some emulation baked into it.

Um, yeah.

Anything else on, on the Star Fox 64?

Apparently it runs well on Steam Deck.

So, if you have a Steam Deck and you want to run it, you can do it there.

Uh, there is no I'm sorry, what did you say?

Yes.

The port exists only at There's only a Windows version of the port.

The source code is available in case you want to, say, compile

it for Linux or whatever.

But I don't think I've seen anyone do that just yet.

Well, the compiler for Linux could, uh, usually comes down to libraries being

used, and so, as long as everything's compatible with Linux, and you have

the right libraries and dependencies, then you should be fine, but I don't

know what dependencies they have.

Yeah, I have terrible luck with trying to, uh, build software

on Linux, so, like, yeah.

Yeah, it is what it is.

And the problem with Linux is that you, there are so many flavors.

That's so fragmented that it's like with windows, you have windows 11,

you have some, um, libraries and some dependencies that you get, that

you might be missing that you can download, but beyond that, you kind

of know what to expect with Linux.

It's an open box.

Like, unless you really know what you're doing, it is, um,

it's a little bit of a nightmare, but.

Typically, building stuff should be, like, fine, depending on what type

of, uh, programming language it is.

Let's say if it's Rust, they usually do a pretty good job of multi platform support.

But, once again, this is probably, like, C, C so, that gets a little hairier.

We shall see, but in the meantime, though, let's see if there's any

other, uh, I wanna look at, I wanna look this up, let's look this up.

Third, let's see, reverse engineered PC ports.

We're doing some live investigations on So, there is a decompilation of

a couple of games, like Super Mario Bros, the original I, uh, don't know

if you really need that given how good emulation is these days, especially

with NES games But you also have stuff like The Legend of Zelda, Link to

the Past, or Super Metroid, or Super Mario World Then you have Doom 64.

Oh, yeah, I mean, yeah, let's see Ship of Arcanian for

Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time

Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon.

Oh, yeah, the perfect dark port.

Remember that?

Yeah.

Yeah, that came out like earlier this year too, if I'm not mistaken Interesting.

Okay, and then let's see what else I mean, I think there, I think someone

was decompiling Metroid Prime as well, though I don't know much about, uh.

Oh, there's also Sonic 3 in, like, remember, Sonic 3 also

has a really good port in the form of Angel Island Revisited.

If you, uh, so I don't know that one.

I know the old Sonics, like, 1 and 2, that's about it, for Sega.

So, Angel Island Revisited is a, essentially, think of it as like a

fan remaster of Sonic 3 Knuckles.

It's wide screen.

Oh, okay.

So screen okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's wide screen and all of, and all of that good stuff.

And it's also heavily mod too, in case you wanna mod it with like

Sonic Mania graphics, which is something I've seen people do.

Okay.

Yeah, it's a lot.

It's a lot of cool stuff.

I can't go over all of them.

And honestly, the list I have probably isn't definitive, but.

Yeah,

it's,

I, I don't play these ports typically very much or like, I own

some of these games too, but like

Mario 64 is fun.

Everything else.

I, I just have so many other projects on my plate that I don't get to play them.

But like I said, I love seeing them as preservation.

Um, people's hobbies.

I love seeing this type of stuff.

I definitely want to see more of this happen.

Um, what I, this next topic is one, a War Thunder tradition.

Classified military documents leaking on their forums.

This is an, this is a weird topic.

What's going on here, Hitech?

So every now and then people who play War Thunder will get into arguments

about tank balancing and also like, how they should function in real life.

So much to the point where, Classified military documents get

leaked on their forums, and this isn't the first time it's happened.

It's not even the second, third, fourth, or fifth time it's happened.

It happens like clockwork.

It's insane that this even happens to begin with.

Damn, we should've gotten Russ to be a guest.

I could've asked him about about this.

It would've that would've been good.

And here's the thing, there's already been people that have gone

to jail for this type of stuff.

This is Well yeah, of course, and this is, yeah, this is the kind

of stuff that'll get you thrown in jail for, um, I don't want to say

life, but for a really long time.

Depending on how bad it is, and everything, it could be a very long time.

Longer than it should ever be, honestly, depending on what the league is, but yeah.

Well, I mean, depending on, yeah, it's crazy that, it's crazy that

these War Thunder, like, they must be part of the military or something,

or they must know a guy that's in the military, I mean, there's no

way that you can even get access to these classified documents without,

like, being someone in the military.

And not just, like, being someone in the military, being someone in the military

that either works on the tanks, or knows a guy that works on these tanks, too.

Yeah, no, I mean, one, I can't remember who the dude is, but

there's one guy on these performance videos that's, what, this poor.

He went to jail a few years ago because he got an argument, posted classified, I

don't know if it was game related, I think it was game related, it might have been

Discord or somewhere, but yeah, he went to jail for a pretty good long while because

he posted, um, classified documents, released secrets to prove his point,

which is, I'm sorry if you're doing that, maybe you need to go to jail, partially

just to save, uh, like, society from you.

Because If it's so important for you to win an argument that you have to go

to the stupid levels of, like, doing something you should know is very illegal.

I don't know if there's any saving you.

I don't know if I want you on the roads.

It's gonna be a little harsh, but And I'm sure this leaked information may get

someone killed one day, let's be honest.

So, this That's usually, especially back in the day, that's usually

the problem, because they will have like, uh, weaknesses for tanks, let's

say, in this, like, tanks, you know.

Weaknesses, design flaws, uh, other things that could be very detrimental.

Other classified secrets could also be locations of individuals,

spies, whatever it is.

It could be another thing, like, there's, there's reason

why documents are classified.

I get that.

Um, but if there is, I will have to say, if there's no real, like,

danger, then that needs to play and keep it, uh, for that, like, document.

Even if it is classified, then I think that needs to be put

into play when sentencing.

I don't, I, uh, Yeah, I think the government, uh, the military

is a little too powerful in this, in this type of thing.

But at the same time, if you're dumb enough to just compromise yourself to

do this, to win an argument, I don't know if you need to be in society.

So I will say this.

This actually isn't for a tank.

This is for the Eurofighter Typhon.

And, uh, it's a, yeah, so it's a, uh, NATO, it's a NATO, it's

a NATO jet, and it's, uh, partly UK, Germany, Italy, and Spain.

And those are the guys that usually use this, and, oh man, I don't know, man.

So, they They have banned the user in question, and they've also removed

the offending material, in this case the, uh, classified documents.

And, yeah, they said that you should never share documents unless

they have been 100 percent legally declassified and publicly safe for use.

I don't know how long it takes for a document like this to be

declassified, but I'm pretty sure it'll happen in our lifetimes, right?

Not like copyright.

Um, that's part of the problem.

Sometimes they won't declassify these.

It just depends on what it is.

Like, even though, like, this fighter could end up being

decommissioned for years to come, they might not declassify them.

It just really depends, um, on the military, on the

This one is, uh, I think a

It's a multi country, um, jet, but it could be It's probably owned by

Uh, maybe a contractor or one of the countries, more or less, so.

I don't know, who knows.

It could get, um, At the end of the day, they're using it to

like, try to win an argument.

And that, it doesn't matter.

This is stupid.

Sorry, this is a good topic.

This is stupid that they have to use this to try to win an argument.

It's, I don't know.

Yeah, and it's, and like, it's very different.

Like, Gameplay balance and, like, actual capabilities of, like,

military weapons are very different, because, like, let's think about it.

How many weapons in Call of Duty are actually accurate to, like, their

actual weapon, like, classifications?

They're not, but Call of Duty is an arcade shooter.

Um, some of these other, uh, games try to be more simulators, and so I get that

they want to get as close as possible.

Um, But you're just never gonna get it, get 100 percent there unless you

have the government making the game itself, which our government has been

involved in games before, partially for recruitment, which is interesting.

Yeah, I think America's Army is the name of the game.

It is.

Damn, we should, Rusk about that, Rusk about this, whether

he gets, if we get him on again.

I agree with that, that'd be very interesting to see if he

has any insights into that.

Yeah.

. But yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, I think that if I was this game company,

I might even just close the forums unless they really think it's gonna provide

enough to keep people playing the game.

I just, this is, I mean, as long as they're moderating it well enough,

it's not on them and they're persing everything, but they're, they could be

in trouble if they don't handle that too.

So, um, I mean, hey, I mean, I think they did a pretty good job.

They, uh, banned the guy swiftly and also deleted the offending documents.

Agreed, agreed.

But they could end up going the valve route, ignoring it eventually.

Okay, I think it's a little different when you have military, like literal

military classified documents.

I don't think that, I don't think, I don't think even Valve could ignore that.

I think you'd be shocked what Valve can ignore.

Um, they'll try not to, and they have a good legal team, but I'm just saying.

They have a lot of issues on their forms going on right now that

they're not handling very well.

That's fair that That being said a document be like this There's got to be

flags and stuff in their systems for this.

But who knows all I know is uh advice to everyone do not There's sometimes

winning an argument is just not worth it.

Here's the thing you especially if it's the online form Just

leave just leave the form.

You'll never meet that guy again.

You'll never see that guy Whatever like It's not worth it.

It's not worth it.

It's not worth your health to try to win as a, uh, even your freedom,

you know, to win an argument.

What's this next topic?

This one's an interesting one.

Multiverse, if you're okay with me moving on.

Multiverse uses actual audio from Charlie the Unicorn to

advertise game without permission.

This one, I don't know how this got past me.

Evidently, uh, well all we know for certain is that the video

in question was taken down.

We could play it, but we could also play the actual Charlie the Unicorn.

Uh, I haven't seen that in years, holy crap.

It's been years, and it's definitely, so we don't, I don't think we need to play

it, I think people have good context.

But yeah, just go look up Charlie the Unicorn on YouTube

and you'll get context for this.

Candy Mountain Charlie!

Charlie!

Oh, you're promoting us with that.

Oh.

We're getting taken down now.

Ah man, fucking WB.

But it's the actual audio from Charlie's Unicorn, which

is crazy that they did that.

That's like, not fair use.

Yeah, he's specifically not fair use.

Right?

And so, yeah, it's 1 thing.

If you like, do it and you credit the author or not even credit, but like,

pay him, pay the guy that made trying to get with that's what you have to do.

This is a copyright, uh, thing.

They have to pay them or get like, they have to pay them.

They have to have permission.

Um, to do it, so I'm hoping that the creators of the unicorn

get a fat check from this.

Um, I have a feeling that, that, uh, uh, Warner Brothers is probably going to

settle pretty quickly because they know.

That, um, that this is gonna be a problem, and why not?

Why take it to even court at this point?

Like they, I I, they should be just settling as quick as possible.

Yeah.

And speaking of wb, there's some more games being delisted, cartoon network

games, and it's some bullshit fucking wb Like, people say, like, people

say Ubisoft is dying, but look at wb.

WB

has been dying for decades.

It's.

Okay, just a prime example of, like, the, um, TV and movie industry, uh, they

themselves have hit that, um, kind of, like, capitalistic edge where they acquire

and then they, they're kind of failing.

I think we're hitting that with AAA publishers and stuff like that where.

They've, they're hitting their edge to where now they're just,

they've milked the cow so much that now it's just starting to die.

Yeah, like, oh yeah, for context, Cartoon Network is owned by WB.

I don't know if you didn't know this or not, but it had to be mentioned.

So WB, yeah.

That's good.

Yeah, yeah, so.

WB has been doing a lot of dumb shit over the years.

Like, let's look at, let's look at the DCEU, right?

Like, have you, have you seen Man of Steel?

Or Batman v Superman?

Or the Suici or, not the Suicide Squad, sorry.

Suicide Squad, the first one with Will Smith.

Yeah, yeah.

And have you seen the fiasco that was the Justice League, followed by

Zack Snyder's The Justice League?

Um, yeah, I don't know.

The DCEU, Universe is already a hard thing to make a movie on.

I'll be honest like it's hard to um, they're a little bit more black and

white and just harder when you do that.

Man, there's so many missteps too.

There's also the fact that WB patented the Nemesis system from Shadow of Mordor.

Remember that?

That's right, I hate, I hate game patents.

I hate them so much.

And also on the topic of multiverses, remember when they released

multiverses like a few years ago?

And then they took it down?

And then they brought it back.

Even worse than it was before.

I have yet to touch it.

I probably will never touch it.

Partially because of that, and also, it just doesn't interest me.

There's so many other games I'd rather play.

Yeah, and then they also, uh, delisted a bunch of Adult Swim.

Like, games published by Adult Swim.

That's another, that's another fiasco.

Yeah, so, our, so, Samurai Jack, Steven Universe.

Steven Universe is in Adult Swim though, right?

No, no, no, no.

So, Adult Swim had their own, like, publishing label where they would

publish games that were, uh Oh, okay.

They publish games, like, they're like an indie publisher.

They publish games that are unrelated to their Adult Swim properties, like, uh,

I think Duck Game was one such a game.

Oh, okay.

And, uh, Ghost Song as well.

There's a couple of them that are actually pretty good.

I don't think I'd realize that.

Interesting.

And then you have these Cartoon Network games like Samurai Jack,

Steven Universe, Adventure Time, a bunch of other stuff too.

Um, yeah.

So So, is this, so delisted means you can play these online, or are

these like actual games that I, what does the delisting mean on them?

So, these are Steam games,

and also console games.

So, if you bought them already, they're in your library forever.

They hopefully can't take those away from you, otherwise

there'd be some serious issues.

I don't think they can.

I don't think Valve has ways to do that, actually.

But, yes, but, uh, Essentially, you cannot buy them anymore.

Like, they're already gone.

Why delist something that could just at least make you some money?

I don't get that.

I don't think it costs them anything to have that listed.

Well, why cancel a movie that was basically already complete?

Like the Batgirl movie.

There's only one reason for that.

Tax.

Tax credits.

Tax breaks.

So, yeah, that's tax Well, that and it was probably gonna not do

well, but It was going to do so bad.

They might as well just cancel it, right.

And get the tax credits, get, um, um, yeah,

write offs and stuff.

And Hollywood, like WB every Hollywood accounting is that infamous system for

doing this type of thing, which is pretty nasty, but I don't know if removing

a game like this actually could count towards that kind of taxing system.

I don't think.

Removing it saves you anything.

I don't think it does.

I don't know, man.

They haven't released too many good movies either.

I mean, I will be fair, they did release the Dune movies.

Which are very good, excellent movies, by the way.

You should watch them if you haven't already.

But they've also They still release some good stuff, but Yeah, sometimes

they still release the good movies, but they These days they tend to release

more, uh, stinkers, to be honest.

Like, uh, the Matrix Resurrections.

Thanks for watching!

Man, that, oh my god.

I haven't even watched them yet, I don't know if I can.

The new ones or like the old ones?

I've watched the old Matrix, I love them.

Oh, dude.

The new ones, I just don't, I might watch them one day, I

just, not a priority for me.

I, I, we're kind of in this really weird space.

Spot with media and I've mentioned this multiple times, but both game companies

and also movie and TV show companies that are they're running out they're trying

to play this like we have plenty of ideas I believe like we have plenty of shows

that that will pop up that have that are great I think League of Legends albeit

it's based on a game is a great series um on Netflix and really shows that

like you can Still make great things.

It's just, they're trying to choose safe routes and they're

just screwing themselves over.

And I think they're going to kind of fail at the end of the day.

Do you think we're going to see?

Yeah.

Do you think WB realistically could die?

I mean, they're owned by AT& T.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think they could die.

I think any one of these companies could die.

That being said, will they become more of a ghost company?

Probably sell IPs off or close.

Thanks.

Yeah, there's a lot of things they can do.

Um, to say, like, to save value and save, um, themselves, but I think they're going

to have to go through a lot of hurt.

And unfortunately, a lot of that hurt is going to be

passed down to the workers, so.

Yeah, I just want to rant about the Matrix.

So, it was directed by one of the Wachowskis, who, you know,

they were the original directors for the Matrix franchise.

But this one was a real stinker.

Like, it was, the action just isn't very good.

Like, I feel like Okay, hear me out.

So what are your thoughts on Zack Snyder, as a director?

Fine, I guess?

I don't know if I have any, like, what other stuff has he done?

I can't remember.

So, he's done 300.

Okay, so, that, I mean, that's a banger.

Yeah, he's also done the Watchmen movie.

Yeah, he's also done Batman V Superman and Man of Steel.

I actually liked Batman V Superman.

It was fun, even though it was super convoluted.

And he's, okay, now, yeah, yeah.

He's crazy for trying to piece them together the way that that was pieced

together, but it was still a fun ride.

And, uh, He didn't do the Suicide Squad D, like, really bad one.

I think that was, uh, Ayers or something.

I forget his name, but whatever.

Now, hear me out.

What if Zack Snyder, like, Zack Snyder has a penchant for slow mo action.

I feel like Zack Snyder could pull off a Matrix movie.

Yeah, I think so.

The problem is, it'd be, he's very bad at piecing things together in

a convoluted way, in my opinion.

But beyond that, I think it would be, it'd be a fun ride.

Yeah, like, just have him be the choreographer and, like, direct the action

scenes and have another director direct, like, the other important stuff, too.

I don't know.

My prob here's my problem though, too.

The Matrix is not a very easy world to make additional things in.

I think it's done.

Like, them trying to resurrect I'm not I usually want more of what I like.

I usually am this way, but the Matrix is not actually a universe I want

reopened because it was already starting to get messy with the last

The last movie that they made was already, like, That didn't do well.

I thought it was fine.

I liked it, but it was already kind of a mess.

And so it's weird that they dipped back in that universe when it was

obviously going to be like super risky and obviously they did a horrible job.

Speaking of which, oh, the Joker 2.

I haven't seen that one, but I've heard it's a mega stinker.

Um, I hear it's going to be one of those ones where some people like it later, but

I didn't like, I didn't see the Joker 1.

I don't like the premise that was kind of behind it with what

people were doing with the Joker.

I just don't care.

I like traditional Jokers more.

Um, I like Jokers like in the Batman games are fun.

Like I'm here.

For a more comic based Joker and not this, um, this Uh, sympathetic in some ways.

Joker.

I don't know.

I, I haven't seen the movies.

They, they don't attract me.

That's, that's fair enough.

That's fair enough.

And what was the last movie they released this year?

Lord of the Rings.

The War on Roro?

I don't know.

I don't fucking know.

. It's an anime though.

It's an anime movie though, which is unusual.

Yeah.

Uh, WB has some anime stuff that they do.

They also are doing the ice.

The K, um, uh.

Suicide Squad, Isekai?

Suicide Squad, Isekai, yeah.

That one?

That, yeah.

I've seen a couple episodes.

It's actually kind of a fun ride.

That being said, it's also really, it's a fun ride.

I'll say that.

I don't know if I like it or not yet, but I'm enjoying it.

Yeah.

Speaking of which, did you know the, uh, old Hobbit movie?

The old animated Hobbit movie from like the 70s or whatever?

Yeah.

It was animated by the studio that would eventually become Studio Ghibli.

Really?

I did not know that.

That is really off topic, but that is very fascinating.

I'll be honest, that animation kind of creeps me out, but

I did watch it as a kid.

Yeah, it's kind of crazy.

Now you have me looking it up.

Yeah, crazy fun fact.

Um, let's uh, Let's, uh, if you're okay, let's move on to

the graphics bubbles popping.

Yeah, for sure.

I'm really curious about your takes on this one.

Um, build up this, uh, build this up.

Why is the graphics bubble popping?

So, essentially, a lot of developers are expressing concerns that video game

budgets are ballooning out of control.

And that games cannot afford to look this good anymore, essentially.

Let's look at some like, here's the quote.

Eastmail is worried that major studios are in a tight spot where traditional

games have become too expensive but live service games have become too risky.

He pointed to recent games that have had both jaw dropping realism,

Avatar Frontiers of the Pandora, and Senua's Saga Hellblade 2,

and lackluster sales, for both.

So.

Gardner says photorealistic looking games are overrated anyways, and the

best way to move forward in my book is to make hyper stylized games.

Also, limit the budget to less than 5 million would make sense.

Limit the investment.

Limit the risk.

Uh, so yeah, I partially agree with Gardner on this.

Here's where I diverge a little bit.

Photorealistic games You have to take into play what you're making as a game.

If you're making, uh, let's say Last of Us, I would say that's

photorealistic to a point.

It still has a little bit of stylization to it, but it is photorealistic

and they try to make the world feel very gritty and realistic.

There's a whole ploy, there's a whole point to those types of graphics.

When you're trying to make something look kind of realistic

for just the point of making it realistic, you're losing the point.

You need to make sure that your game loop, your, the base game, the, how

it plays, what you're doing is good.

This is where we're kind of failing and they can, these companies can

say all they want that it's this, this, or this, but it's ultimately

the top dogs, especially if you're AAA that are failing these games.

It's not, I don't think it's the developers really.

I think it's the people that shouldn't be involved in the decisions.

Life service action like we know that live service, not actually,

but life service games are influenced by the top dogs, right?

It's like the directors, the, uh, C level execs are saying we wanted this because

this is what's doing well over here.

And they're gambling is what they're doing.

They are gambling instead of doing, um, instead of doing, uh,

investments and, like, diversify it.

So when you're like.

Investing in companies when you're investing in the stock market stuff,

you do diversified portfolios.

These companies typically do that, but they're putting what

they really are gambling with their money when they put like.

500, 000, 000 dollar bets on games.

I think it's silly and that's where I kind of agree with Gardner.

I think 5, 000, 000 in today's world is really small though.

I don't think that's realistic, but I do think.

You know, depending on what the IP If the IP deserves more, let's say if it's a Halo

game I don't think it needs to be as high as it is, but it definitely should be um

Limited more but it should be higher than some other games, but they should take

that money that they save By not putting it all into Halo, and diversifying, and

creating some new IPs, and some new, uh, jobs and stuff, like, I definitely

think they need to diversify more.

So, here are some budgets for Sony AAA games.

We have Crash Bandicoot, which had a budget of a supposedly 1.

6 million dollars.

Which is kind of think, which is kind of crazy to think about

even back then, but, I mean, I guess a million's just not money.

But That's a lot back then.

That's a lot back then.

Um, you could probably because of how money runs today and inflation,

you could probably see that as more like three or four million.

Um, but with the, I, sorry, I cut you off, but this, this was, it's also

easier back then technically, uh, maybe not technically, but like, It

was easier to make games, especially on Rails games like Crash Bandicoot,

in the sense of, they have directions, they don't go too complicated, they're

not graphically, like, intense, but they couldn't be back then.

So, um, I think this is a very interesting thing that we're

gonna have a lot of debate about.

But yeah, continue, sorry.

So, the first Jak and Baxter game had a budget of 15 million.

Then Jack three, the third game in the Jack and Dexter trilogy had around 45 to

$50 million of as part of their budget.

And then the last of us, part two had 22, uh, $220 million as part of its budget.

And then Marvel Spider-Man two had a budget of about 315 million.

So okay, so part two didn't do as well as part one because of the controversy

of people just being stupid and being caught up on like Yeah, I remember

Like this is gonna be my hot take But the moment they announced Ellie

was gonna be the main character.

I predicted Joel would die and I mean, yes It's like it's like like it's like

an elementary It's like an elementary school like prediction like and people

were still upset that Joel fucking died like dude Okay Yeah, I was gonna say,

like, he's not really the good, like, that's what makes this game so good,

and like, if you have issues with this, then it's probably not, like, it's

probably not a game for you, because he ultimately kind of did a bad thing at

the very end of The Last of Us Part 1.

He killed a bunch of people, um, Ellie said she wanted to do, go through with it,

I'm not gonna spoil the ending fully, but, It is, and I will give this, it's a great

area, but you still kind of the bad thing.

You, you build up any means from that type of thing.

And so, it makes sense a little bit of how part two goes, but part two

goes a little too hard sometimes.

That's, part two's story gets ruined a little bit for me because of that.

Uh, because I don't, like, it's the Moby Dick kind of style of stories.

Pursuing something to the detriment of yourself to pretty much killing yourself.

So

or not really but catching, you know revenge bad revenge bad and Yeah,

that's kind of what part two is but two hundred like So here's the thing.

Last of Us 1 proved that it should get a bigger budget.

I'm okay with The Last of Us having that big of a budget.

I do kind of, I'm kind of curious where the budget goes though sometimes.

A lot of that goes into marketing, which I, I really wish we could get away from

so much money going into marketing, because it's really not, it's so,

it does not help the game very much.

It helps promote it.

And make cells.

I get that, but I'd rather it go into the developers more than into marketing.

Yeah, I agree.

But at the same time though, you see companies like Coca Cola and

like Oreo, like they're like, those products are ubiquitous.

Like everyone knows what Coke is.

Right.

But at the same time, they still mark.

They still mark.

Yeah.

Well, they have to, because every time you like, if I see a

Coca Cola ad, it's makes, okay.

And yeah, I want some Coca Cola.

I love Coca Cola.

It gets you thinking about it.

Um, but the last of us part, like, uh, video games.

It's good to advertise it, but it's good to, honestly, they do better by just

promoting it on stream with streamers and through less traditional avenues because

that's where gamers tend to be more.

So their marketing strategies are also a little bit like, not

great when it comes to games.

As opposed to Coca Cola, where everyone drinks Coca Cola.

Not everyone's a gamer.

Yeah, like, I could see a marketing strategy like this

work for, like, Pokemon.

Pokemon's a family friendly franchise, and, you know, some people do.

And, like, normal people play Pokemon.

Not, like, core gamers.

Like, more than core gamers play Pokemon, we'll just say.

Like Yeah, even Even so, like That's You'd be shocked at how

much money they put into marketing.

Marketing's just out of control, in my opinion, on how much it costs.

But the reason why this is kind of a little bit of a topic for me is Dead

Space 3, like, kind of a source topic that is, Dead Space 3, essentially,

like, it fell because they got too much input from the top down, but they

also half their budget was marketing.

And the problem with Dead Space is that it is a very, um, it had a cult following.

It, the marketing did not, if they wouldn't have marketed,

they probably would have sold just a little less than they did.

So they would have came up on top and made a lot more money than they actually lost.

I think they lost a little bit because they spent so much of their money, like

a fair minimum, I think it was at least a third of their budget on marketing,

which is crazy for a franchise that didn't need to be marketed that way.

So that's kind of my point.

And because of it, I'm a huge Dead Space fan.

The franchise has suffered since then.

Um, I think Jack 3 was a better game.

I think Jack 3 was a pretty good game, like, upping the, the, uh, to 45

million I think was decent, like, what I'm seeing, like, and like Spider Man

2, 315 million I do think is a little ridiculous, but it's proved itself to

where it could get a bigger budget.

I, I, I kind of agree with that, but at the same time, I also, like,

I, I agree with it, but I also, like, in a sense of, like, you know.

It's kind of deserving of the budget, but, because I don't think it's as much

of a gambling risk, but I do think, like what Garner says, I think it

needs to be rolled back quite a bit.

It needs to be reduced down to maybe a hundred million, that's what they deal

with, and they just have, uh, a smaller team or something like that, I don't know.

Yeah, like, I think Spider Man is perfectly fine, it, I mean, photorealistic

Spider Man looks cool, but I do think a stylized, like, I think, imagine

if they did it in like, the Spider Verse art style, that would be,

that would be, that would be sick.

Like, okay, to be fair, I think that would be even more

expensive than photorealistic.

That's what I'm saying.

Doing it like, okay, here's the thing.

Photorealistic is actually probably cheaper than doing, uh, super stylized.

Uh, cause then you have to get a lot of artists in, in the play on this.

Um, when you do photorealistic, you already have a lot of assets

at play that you can utilize.

Depending on what engine you use and all that.

So it's it's hard to say Um, I think some of the photorealistic stuff can

be expensive But I think it's just convoluted games like they're big

like not convoluted but um complicated games Um, if it's open world game, it's

gonna take forever If you want more detail like gamers demand more detail.

That's the thing like I think gamers This is also, I think, where Gardner's point

is gonna fall flat a little bit sometimes.

If Grand Theft Auto is given a five million dollar budget, do you think

gamers are gonna be happy with that game that they're gonna make?

I don't think so.

Hell no.

I think Grand Theft Auto at minimum is gonna have like a billion

dollar budget, to be honest.

Yeah, oh, yeah, at least.

The thing is that they have a cash cow with GTA 5 that they keep on making

money so they can keep throwing money.

I'm fine with that.

Like, I'm fine with With them throwing more money to build it, like as

long as they have the money, but if it fails, it's just a bigger risk.

Oh yeah, for sure.

I don't see, I don't see GTA 6 failing, but yeah, I understand

where you're coming from.

It's, even if it's bad, people are still going to have fun with it.

Yeah, I don't, I don't, it's too big to fail.

Um, But I do like Gardner's sentiment on this though, budgeting and diversifying.

I really do think that's, I sat with him on that.

I'm gonna put a little end to this unless you have something more to say.

I don't think the graphics bubble's popping.

I think they're gonna find that, um, Graphics are important and style is

important, but it needs to be done in the nature of what's best for that game.

What kind of game are you making?

What makes sense the last of us should be photorealistic, but Jack and

Daxter, let's say, should not be right.

It's going to be stylized marvels.

Spider man should be more stylized than than, uh, photorealistic.

Right?

So it really, they, they need us what they need to do is prioritize.

Um, art direction, and maybe that's ultimately what it is.

Make sure that C level execs aren't doing, uh, the art direction, but art

directors and getting better art directors might be diversifying this, kind of

the end cap I'd like to put on this.

All I'm gonna say is, if they made a game that looked like this, if

they made a game that looked like Spider Verse, that would be insane.

I would love it!

They gotta make it happen, man, that would be so awesome.

I'm, I'm down for it.

I don't play Spider Man games much, even though I like Spider Man okay.

It's just, yeah, I think it's maybe, I don't know.

I think if it was like a spider verse, I'd 100 percent play that game because I

love that style and I also like the humor.

I like the, I like a lot about that.

Uh, universe they're really fun.

Yeah.

So how many copies do you think it would take to be a successful game?

Uh, honestly, people, these companies need to shoot for like, uh, 1 or 2 million.

These triple a to be successful.

I think maybe that needs to be reflective of what their budgets are.

They need to take into account.

What there's like the players expected player size for this type

of game would be to buy it and how many copies they expect to sell.

Um, but definitely not what Nier Automata has sold.

Nine million copies.

Yeah, I mean, Nier Automata came out in like 2017.

Which is, I guess it was a while ago, but it's still a very good game.

It is, so I, okay, I thought I, I haven't finished the game yet, I played through

it and got through it and got to the end and I'm like, okay, this is done, but it's

not, it's not done the first time you, like, when you get to the credits, right?

Um, I haven't gotten past that.

Maybe it's time.

Maybe it is time.

It's a good game.

What the, uh, Japanese do really well is, is bring up these

thought provoking stories.

They're like, yeah, what, what would it be like to be, like, essentially just

the, uh, the past, uh, or the future.

Essentially, humanity's gone, and what's left is what they created, right?

Right.

It's kind of like what Nier Automata is,

so.

All I'm gonna say is you should play it, for sure.

If you haven't played already, audience.

You're making, you're being a little quiet, so you're making me really

think that I really did miss something.

Um, Yes.

You, you did.

Yeah, I, well, the first part is kind of like that, but yeah, I need to finish it.

Um,

but so they were not success, so what's the point, so, They just

broke even with 9 million units sold?

Well, I don't know if they I don't know when they broke even, but they

did sell 9 million, so Yeah, they had to have There's no way that game

cost more than like, 50 million.

Who knows?

Maybe.

I don't think, uh, Japanese games cost as much to make.

Yeah, so here's a fun fact.

Are you familiar with DXVK?

So,

fun fact, DXVK exists because the creator wanted to play Nier Automata on Linux.

But at the time, you know, gaming on, I mean, people say Proton

made Linux gaming viable, it did.

But one of the reasons Proton is even viable to begin with was because of DXVK.

Like, without DXVK we'd still be in like the stone ages of Linux gaming.

I don't know if I fully agree with that, but I agree with like

It would be a different place.

We'd be, uh, years behind because

man, maybe Stone Age is right.

Um,

yeah, I just think about this game.

I really do.

Like, it is really a fascinating game, but it does have, it has the problem

that a lot of Japanese games do that the environment itself is very barren.

And I get the world is barren as is, but it makes the game a little boring at

times, even though it's a very fun game.

It's interesting, I will say, um, uh, so Platinum Games to develop it.

And I do think some of their other games were better on the action front

of things, but I still think it's a great game that you should play.

Oh, that everyone should play to be honest.

It's fun.

It's fun, it's very weird.

Some people are not.

Um, it has some quirky things to it, uh, especially since, uh,

the, the, uh, who you control is.

Um, like you, you control multiple characters, but oftentimes to

be, uh, to be, uh, it has some interesting interactions that

you can do, uh, do with that.

And so it's fun.

It's fun.

I like, I say that it's fun because I like seeing.

I gotta defend myself.

I like seeing easter eggs and weird stuff in games like that.

It's like, it reminds me of like Metal Gear Solid.

There's some weird interactions you can get into with that game, where

you're just like, this is so quirky, but it makes it so creatively fun.

And I'd say Nier is like that.

There's a couple interactions you can do with the characters.

And I know this because I know a couple of 2B cosplayers, hmm.

He's a very, he's a very Let's just say he's a very eccentric man.

To make a game like that, I believe that.

I believe that.

He's very eccentric.

Oh, man.

God bless.

God bless all the 2B cosplayers out there.

Hey, I Cosplaying is difficult.

Like, uh, anyone that's a cosplayer, like, Congrats to you guys.

Like, Uh, I've seen so many different cosplay players that do

different things, including the 2B stuff, and it's impressive.

It's very, yeah, it's very difficult, too.

I mean, even just buying a proper cosplay costume that fits you.

And the people that, like, sew their own costumes, I mean,

that's, like, next level.

I even buy costumes properly?

Like, I feel like it almost always has to be somewhat custom made.

Even if you buy a costume and then, like, modify it Yeah, I think, I think you can

buy, like, a 2B outfit, but I think to make it properly fit you, you might have

to, like, customize it just a little bit.

Or maybe have someone do it for you.

I don't know.

Take your measurements and stuff.

One way or another, it's just not like you can go to the Nearest

clothing store and buy one.

You have to do research.

You have to do a lot of fittings and stuff like that.

So, um, including if we're okay with this, speaking of fittings and everything, I

knew three allows you to also do some custom fittings for its newest device.

Oh my, you can play dress up, but not, I mean, that would be cool if you could

actually swap out the, uh, top, um, Cassie and stuff like that better, but no.

So with the, I know three.

They announced modules.

They, or at least they did the reveal of the INEO 3 that is, and they have modules.

They have little oblong little sections in the left and right areas where

they can put customized controllers.

Early, like, pads and stuff like that.

So, they have joysticks, they have touchpads, they have, uh, d

pads, two different types, three different types of d pads, I

think, maybe two different types.

Including, and then they have the touchpads, like I said, and then on

the right side, they have, like, a six button, uh, style, they have, uh, they

have touchpads, they have joysticks, mix and match, and they can flip them up and

down, like, it, it, it looks really cool.

If you like to have some say over how your controller controller

looks and, and, and feels and functions on your handheld device.

It's unique.

I really like that they're doing this because I think in in the world of

handheld gaming we need more unique More ingenuity in this field So I'm

really curious what your thoughts are on this high tech if you've seen have

you seen the video or anything on this?

So I haven't seen the video.

I did pull up the article that you linked and it looks super cool Like it

looks like They're reversible, right?

Like, I see this analog, uh, thumbstick and D pad.

Yeah, you can reverse it so that the D pad is, like, at the top and the stick

is at the bottom, or vice versa, too.

I also see there's a couple of interesting, uh, interesting

ones, like a six button layout.

You've got A, B, C, X, Y, Z, which, I mean, what's that, Sega Genesis, almost?

It made me think of, uh, I feel like the Super Nintendo did this, didn't it?

It had a six button layout.

Uh, Sega had a six button layout.

Um,

I can't remember if there was some other.

No, the Super Nintendo had four buttons and the, uh, triggers.

Yeah, and the Genesis had six buttons but no triggers.

Uh, the Saturn had Yes, the Saturn had six buttons and a trigger, but, uh The

PlayStation had two sets of, uh, had two sets of triggers, you know, L1,

And then we have a couple of modules with what appears to be trackpads.

And that is interesting because trackpads are cool and all, but I feel

like 99 percent of, like, trackpad functionality is in Steam Input.

Like, I feel like a lot of it works well on the Steam Deck

because Steam Input is there to, like, interpret the inputs, right?

Like, do you have an I.

N.

E.

O.?

Like, I think they made one with trackpads, but I, from

what I understand, the trackpads weren't very good for gaming.

The I.

N.

E.

O.

Coon is, um, uh, is that.

Um, it has trackpads built into it, but, yeah, there's

like, it's useful for Windows.

It is useful, but it's not what people were expecting that it would function

like the Steam Deck's trackpads, and they don't quite function the same in games.

Um, I was kind of hoping with that that they were trying to get some

type of Steam OS working on it, but I think with the certain announcement

of a certain, uh, Lenovo Legion Go Steam version, I think that I knew

they could be Steam compatible, so.

I think so too.

Yeah, exactly.

I

think that them doing the trackpads is just something that they can do.

Like, they look good, but It should be compatible with SteamOS, so if SteamOS

officially is out, you should be able to get, like, I don't think, I know 3

is betting on it, because I think they want to do their own flavor to operating

system, they're working on an operating system, they have been for years, but

there's no reason why I think you could put SteamOS on here once it's, uh, it's

out, and then have that, if you like the trackpads, have that capability.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's a crazy thought.

I am curious, though.

I wonder if you could take it out while the device is on.

Like, you, like, swap it out while the device is on, or, like, if you can't

do that and you have to swap it out while, like, it's off or some shit

like that, because that would suck.

I'm just gonna say it right now.

That would suck.

That would?

Um, I mean, honestly, in today's world, hot swap modules should be just fine.

We'd have to learn more about this, but They could make it so

it's swappable while it's running.

Um, we'll just see if they do decide that.

I agree.

That would be weird.

Yes.

Um, to turn off the device and swap it out.

So on top of having modular controllers, it also has two SKUs.

It has a high-end skew with a ryzen ai, HX three 70 with a radi on eight 90 M

graphics, uh, graphics chip, and uh, they have the, and that one has ole on it too.

So yeah, this is gonna be a super premium model.

Yeah, I, so the Ioneo flagships are usually around a thousand dollars

anyway, so this will probably be like a four, like this is a bit expensive.

This is for people that want a little bit more premium device.

The Ioneos do feel really good actually.

Um, and they've, but their, their biggest downside, the Ioneo

devices have been, they usually have downward facing speakers.

A lot of them do, I don't know if all of them do, but I think a lot of them do.

And they sound like garbage.

So.

At least they have front facing speakers, that's a big win for me.

Oh yeah.

Um, I do, I will have to say, the trackpads are gonna be interesting because

you won't have joysticks, you have to choose between trackpads or joysticks.

Um, and I, I would not run trackpads.

But being able to swap them out would be nice, like if you like

playing some games with a trackpad.

Some games, an analog stick.

That's nice that you could swap those out though.

Yeah.

I just have to wonder if INE is gonna include a controller

that has not control, sorry.

A case that has like extra space for these extra modules.

'cause I think it would be nice to have all of my modules with me at all times

instead of like forgetting my module with my, like imagine if you brought the six

button, the six button layout, but you didn't bring like a module with either

the thick, the thumb stick, or like.

A trackpad, like, you'd be stuck playing retro games, like, you wouldn't be able

to use your right stick to do anything, cause you don't have one, right?

It sounds like a user problem.

It does sound like a user problem.

No, but you're, you're right.

I think, so I think this, you just get your own case, like, the, I'm trying

to find my, my TomToc case, there's a TomToc Sling case, that works great for

the Steam Deck, it's the one I recommend, and it has plenty of room, just get one

of those for this, you can stick all your modules in there, and it's great.

It'd be nice to have it come with a case, but you know that they

usually cheap out with these cases and, and it's just always good to

just have your own little bag that,

um, yeah, as far as like it's ideal, their build quality is

usually pretty interesting.

Like, I've taken apart and I, um, and I knew error.

I have an IMEO error over here.

Um, it's an old lead one, but the old leads like bleeds.

It's, it's, it's very like.

It made me not sold on OLED, meaning LCDs can look better than OLEDs at

times, depending on how good the quality of the OLED is and how it's,

how it's been configured and stuff.

Um, their build quality is pretty intense though, like they stuff

everything they can into theirs.

There's no real open room for these devices.

So, um, it's, they're pretty solid.

They usually feel fairly comfortable to hold.

Um, I definitely think they're good devices.

My biggest concern Yeah, that makes sense.

I mean, it is what it is.

Not to mention, uh, if you ever want to get your I.

N.

E.

O.

repaired, you have to, like, ship it over to China, and given, uh, the

current political climate, that might be, uh, more difficult next year.

Oh gosh, you're right with tariffs.

I don't think tariffs gonna affect the repair repair ability It's

gonna affect actually buying this thing at a decent price.

It's gonna affect every device though Every device is made in china, I believe

so um Steam deck will probably go a steam deck get almost double in price.

So Dude, that would be the biggest tax.

I don't think it's going to I I have a feeling that it's probably going to be

It could go up by 20 30 But at the end of the day Um, I have a hard time believing

those tariffs are gonna go through.

I think everyone hates them, but you never know.

Yeah, so, what I am interested in is the battery life, because the ROGLX

is currently the one true battery king in terms of all PC handhelds.

And I've done the testing myself, and It's verifiably better than the Steam Deck OLED

in every way, in terms of battery life.

Yeah, if you stick a big battery, it's gonna happen that way, yeah.

Yeah.

Um, interesting.

So I am curious to see if this Aya Neo is gonna have an 80Wh battery, or if they're

gonna stick like a 40 or 50Wh battery.

Don't, don't plan on this having, like, I can look at the build, don't

plan on this having probably more than 50, it'll probably have 55 to 60.

I would not bet on it being an 80.

Well, one could hope.

One could hope.

One could hope, yeah.

Because it would be kind of sick if we had this device with modular

controls, but also insane battery life.

Like, that would be awesome.

Yeah.

I think you have to give and take, and looking at the We'll see.

We'll see.

Their build qual they usually stick, like, like I said,

their build quality is insane.

Everything is kind of just like, Configured in such a way it's very

tight fitting and so we'll see how much room that they have in this.

Um, if they keep up with their build style.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think they can do it.

But it just comes down to the name brand.

I don't think I'll buy something like this.

I don't need SWAT.

I think it's good for people probably, actually, honestly, like you, Hitech.

Um, I think you'd get a lot of use out of these modules.

I, for me, I don't care.

I want a very Steam Deck oriented or even Legion Go oriented controller

set, like a traditional controller set.

I don't need it for anything else.

So on the topic of the Legion Go, they're going to be at CES.

We talked about this last time.

And we also talked about you going to CES last time.

I've looked into it.

I don't want to spend a thousand dollars to go to CES.

I know you don't, but guess who's going to be there?

Oh, who's going to be there?

Valve.

By Valve I mean EA Lutrify.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, I know.

It's making me question whether or not I spent 1, 000.

Because I've been eyeing it over every day this week.

You could meet Russ in person.

You could even get a selfie with Russ as well.

I could.

That'd be really exciting.

I think ETA Prime's going to be there too.

Uh, I don't know what ETA Prime even looks like to be honest.

But I could, I could spot him from his hands.

. I'll be like, yep, that's, that's CTA prep right there.

I can see his hands.

Dude.

He's got the most famous hands in all of, uh, handheld YouTuber, YouTubers.

Pretty much that's,

we'll see.

We'll see.

It's just so damn expensive.

Um, if it was a free, if it was at least like a, a semi free admission

just because I have to pay $300 to walk the floor and I don't like.

Paying 300 to walk the floor, and then on top of that, a hotel room.

So, we'll see.

Yeah, I guess it is.

I guess it is what it is.

Well, you don't have to go if you don't want.

I know, uh, I know I want!

I want to go!

I want to go!

I don't want to spend the money right now.

Hahaha!

Hey man, you might, you might find some cool stuff.

You might even get the latest scoop on whatever the latest tech is that isn't AI.

I know.

I've been wanting to go to the CES for years.

You might even see the Tesla robot and see if he's actually

a robot or just a guy in a suit.

I'll push him.

See if it, if his stuff's correct.

No, you're just making me want to go more and we'll see.

We'll see.

I'm not going to make any promises, but I'll look into it some more.

I think, because I really, I think you're right.

I think we're going to see some valves more than just Lenovo.

Valve stuff there, but who knows maybe valve will be

releasing something cool there.

You can be a correspondence I know that would be sick.

That would be sick.

Well We can talk about this next week as it will be the week before

Or the will it be the week before?

Yeah, it will be the week before CES so we can talk about it next week with the guard

with Gardner and see what our predictions are for CES But for this absolutely Um

Well, let's close out these predictions with prediction of every episode of it

ending and Unfortunately, it's come to that point where we need to end this.

It's gonna be one of our Funny enough.

It's almost two hours.

It's gonna be one of our shorter episodes But it's it's so much fun

talking about these things with you.

Uh high tech.

It's it sucks that gardener's not here Um, and that we missed him uh But at

least we were able to say some like we were able to put some of the stuff he

wanted to into this episode As he made notes for us Um, and so, yeah, next time

you'll see us with hopefully a full house.

Um, any closing remarks, Hi Tech?

Nothing to say at the moment right now, but I hope Gardener

will show up next episode.

I hope he won't have the COVID, and I hope that he'll be well

enough to at least talk to us.

Yes.

I think he should be right, hopefully.

Fingers crossed.

Uh, depends.

Sometimes it takes a little longer.

But with that, make sure to subscribe to us on YouTube if

you're watching this on YouTube.

If not, you can always go, you can double subscribe if you're on Apple.

Podcast or if you're on Spotify or if you're on YouTube, whatever you can go

and double follow double subscribe It helps us grow and it helps us Get the

word out more and it's just fun Let's get let's get more buddies following

us and we all can be a happy team or a happy community That is hell.

Yeah follow us also Exactly.

You can also follow us, our RSS feed at podcast, subscribe to me, and

then we're also on the Fed verse at Off the console show, at podcast.

Subscribe to me or subscribe to me, and hopefully we'll have

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And if not, let us know.

Thank you Yes.

For, uh, listening and following us to this extent.

Uh, you guys are awesome.

All right, have a good day, y'all.

Yep.

Later set guys.